HP Z3100ps GP

[Edhopkins]

I am getting ready to get a z3100 (44") and am wrestling with the question of whether to get the z3100 plain vanilla or the z3100ps GP.  I know there are many differences between these two models but i am asking only about one of them in this post: the ps driver.

With the z3100ps you have the option of using the driver that comes with the HP Z3100--the PCL3 (raster) drive-- or using the PS driver that you can only use with the ps version of the Z3100. The users manual for the ps version lists alternate scenarios for the drivers: printing color with the PCL3 driver; printing color with the PS driver.  

I can find no discussion of which driver gives the better output--or which driver is capable of giving the better output if you work it correctly.

We are only doing large format photography. All of our files will be from Photoshop.  

Why use one driver rather than the other as far as quality of output is concerned?  what are the pros and cons here?  

Is there anyone out there who has the z3100ps GP who has experimented with the two drivers for the same photo output? Does anyone know of any theoritical reason why one driver should give better results than the other?

Thanks in advance

Ed Hopkins, Baltimore

[Ernst Dinkla]

I am getting ready to get a z3100 (44") and am wrestling with the question of whether to get the z3100 plain vanilla or the z3100ps GP.  I know there are many differences between these two models but i am asking only about one of them in this post: the ps driver.

With the z3100ps you have the option of using the driver that comes with the HP Z3100--the PCL3 (raster) drive-- or using the PS driver that you can only use with the ps version of the Z3100. The users manual for the ps version lists alternate scenarios for the drivers: printing color with the PCL3 driver; printing color with the PS driver. 

I can find no discussion of which driver gives the better output--or which driver is capable of giving the better output if you work it correctly.

We are only doing large format photography. All of our files will be from Photoshop. 

Why use one driver rather than the other as far as quality of output is concerned?  what are the pros and cons here? 

Is there anyone out there who has the z3100ps GP who has experimented with the two drivers for the same photo output? Does anyone know of any theoritical reason why one driver should give better results than the other?

Thanks in advance

Ed Hopkins, Baltimore
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In theory you wouldn't need the GP for Photoshop output. But in the bundle there's the APS extended ICC profile creation + editing that's worth it, there's a rumor that APS is not available in other ways right now so .....

I doubt there will be a quality difference in dithering weaving etc, the PS part adds interpretation for Postscript but will do the same routines to printing after that interpretation. I see no theoretical reason why there has to be a difference in output quality. Right now it must be the most integrated PS RIP for the Z3100, with all the interactivity to the printer that's possible. I would sell my Wasatch SoftRip and get the GP version instead of the plain Z3100 I have here if I faced that choice again.

Ernst Dinkla

[dandeliondigital]

Hi Ed,
I've been using the Z3100ps GP since June. I have experimented with both drivers, printing out numerous RGB, CMYK and Grayscale images in controlled tests. The results do vary, and each has different strengths that may or may not be important to you. More depends on the media you plan on using, and how HP has implemented "Working with Custom Papers," than most everything else. "Better" is a highly subjective quality, and too vague a quality to pursue especially when addresssing the drivers. As far as I can tell, these printers are the most sophisticated yet to be produced, and controlling their output is the best part of using them. Each driver can have different strengths and weaknesses. With that said...

Technically speaking, the ps GP version of the printer is "behind" in firmware updates compared to the non-ps version. I am waiting for the next firmware update which has been promised by HP, and things will change when it comes. (Dramatically! Fingers crossed, I hope.)  I personally wish HP would be more up front in how it addresses the ps GP (specifically vrs the other printers in the line), because there are confusions & issues.

If you are printing postscript code, the ps driver handles the rasterizing. In addition to using Photoshop CS 3, we usually print out of Adobe Illustrator or Adobe InDesign or Quark Xpress and send postscript jobs which contain poscript elements and poscript type in addition to placed rgb or CMYK or grayscale photographs. The ps results are wonderful. FYI, we almost always use application color management. If you want or need a printer that makes very accurate use of the Pantone System, this one does.

If you use postscript you probably want it, but I'd recommend waiting for the firmware update to come. Then, if you are still considering this printer, you can be sure HP implements all the features that are found in the non-PS version firmware. Elements that can only be controlled by firmware, btw. Weigh in on what priority each has relative to the big picture and buy accordingly. Pressure the salesman and or HP reps to tell you in detail what, if any "features" might be left out of your firmware implementation. No matter what driver you choose, the firmware is the next limiting factor. Rather than being at parity, non-ps owners have gotten a number of firmware updates that have addressed issues you might encounter if you are using the ps version of the printer. so sorry, but that is not implemented. Be sure you read all the HP literature, especially their newsletter bulletins, and look at them critically considering what is being addressed and if it applies to the ps GP or the non-ps printer. I recommended that HP support should be more up front about any variations between the printers. Given all the variables, it is falling on the buyer to know what he is buying.

The Z printers are wonderful machines and in my case, I have my fingers crossed for the firmware upgrade to tweak quite a number of items that are not currently addressed in the curent version of the HP Z3100ps GP firmware.

Do not assume when you see things written about the Z3100 that they necessarily apply to the Z3100ps, at this time.

Try out using the HP web site. IMO, things can get very confusing, and frustating, and it can be a difficult, time consuming and frustrating road to travel (ps vrs non-ps), but in the end you will be able to communicate with HP.

Sadly your persistence, homework and patience might be rewarded with disappointment, if you buy a printer that doesn't implement the features you thought you were getting, because of the blurry nature of the marketing surrounding the line of machines.

Also, there are some issues with the APS Software vrs the HP Printer Utility Software that can make things very interesting, but that's another topic.

Good luck, and so long for now, TOM

[William Chitham]

Dear Tom,
As a fellow ps user I was most interested in your post and I wondered if you could expand on a few points:

I've been using the Z3100ps GP since June. I have experimented with both drivers, printing out numerous RGB, CMYK and Grayscale images in controlled tests. The results do vary, and each has different strengths that may or may not be important to you.

[/color]I have only tried the ps driver but was considering trying the raster one. Is it possible to have both loaded at once or do you have to uninstall one to try the other (I'm a pc user, by the way)?
 

More depends on the media you plan on using, and how HP has implemented "Working with Custom Papers,"

[/color]My problem with this is I can't add extra paper presets from the HP site so choices are limited when setting up custom papers. Is this your experience?

Technically speaking, the ps GP version of the printer is "behind" in firmware updates compared to the non-ps version. I am waiting for the next firmware update which has been promised by HP, and things will change when it comes. (Dramatically! Fingers crossed, I hope.)  I personally wish HP would be more up front in how it addresses the ps GP (specifically vrs the other printers in the line), because there are confusions & issues.

[/color]I've found that the ps driver doesn't communicate margins to applications for custom page sizes - have you experienced this? Any other specific problems you can report?

If you are printing postscript code, the ps driver handles the rasterizing. In addition to using Photoshop CS 3, we usually print out of Adobe Illustrator

[/color]Have you had any luck tiling long images out of Illustrator to beat the page length limitation (I think this one is worth a new thread to itself)?

Do not assume when you see things written about the Z3100 that they necessarily apply to the Z3100ps, at this time.

[/color]
I second this!
Best Regards,
William.

[neil snape]

I am not so sure about the PS version being that different than the non PS option. There is an Adobe onboard embedded hardware rip, yet it is almost faceless in the users UI. Yes you can nest files, and do some reprinting but there is not enough UI to make it work. The PS version is really suited for multi user and multi platform users such as a graphic design house with other outside CAD designers and say prepress users all hooked up on the same printer network. Since it has a price point that was on promo with APS it wouldn't in theory hurt to go that way even if not used . Yet the firmware updates are not always as up to date, and I had quite a few bugs when running the PS when trying the actual few features the software offers.
There should be little differences between IQ between the Driver and the PS driver. Yes there are but they should be in theory in line with the differences of the driver API calls compared to Adobe PDF or Postscript language commands. I prefer the simplicity of the straight forward driver for photo repro ,yet if I did graphics , I'd opt for the PS version. Better yet get an optional rip that does tiling correctly , nesting etc. The last version of EFI designer edition works well now in nesting and tiling. ImagePrint V7 does even better at all that concerns photo repro. I use Qimage for testing, but honestly haven't tried tiling yet.

[casterle]

Technically speaking, the ps GP version of the printer is "behind" in firmware

Hi Tom,

Would you please expound on the differences between the PS and non-PS versions (other than APS & PS support)? I've seen people mention this before but have never seen the differences described.

Thanks,

Leroy

[dandeliondigital]

Dear Tom,
As a fellow ps user I was most interested in your post and I wondered if you could expand on a few points:
I have only tried the ps driver but was considering trying the raster one. Is it possible to have both loaded at once or do you have to uninstall one to try the other (I'm a pc user, by the way)?
 My problem with this is I can't add extra paper presets from the HP site so choices are limited when setting up custom papers. Is this your experience?I've found that the ps driver doesn't communicate margins to applications for custom page sizes - have you experienced this? Any other specific problems you can report?Have you had any luck tiling long images out of Illustrator to beat the page length limitation (I think this one is worth a new thread to itself)?
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Hi William, and Leon, too,
I am on Mac OS X and I can indeed have two different printers set up and functional, one with the HP raster driver, and one with the PS driver. I can tell you that when I first tried to do the install with my original HP Disks, I ran into trouble, and was told by HP tech support in an e-mail that I could not have both installed. Later after a lot of talking with HP tech support, the Mac Specialist admitted that it should work which it does.

I make custom page sizes for everything I run, based on the paper size I am using. As far as nesting goes, I got it to work, but you have to work at figuring out the timing. Initially, some of the jobs took so long to spool that although we intended for them to nest nicely 3 across, that didn't happen, and it ran as 3 jobs wasting a lot of paper, instead of one nested 3 across job.

So far, the custom paper presets that you download and install isn't usable on my printer. I haven't gotten that to work after a lot of effort, and then I went around and around with HP tech and they managed to snow me from 1:30 to 6:30 PM one Friday, so I just put that concept to bed for now. I had downloaded...

fineartpearl_less_ink_12.4110_3.0.5.oms
fineartpearl_more_ink_12.4100_3.0.5.oms
fineartpearl_more_ink_12.4100_3.0.5.oms

from the HP website and tried to install these, but it didn't work. I was sold on this concept before buying the printer and was very disappointed when it didn't work at all. An HP tech fussed around with me on the line trying to download and install these presets. Interestly, they vanished from the site at the same time he was trying to download and install the files which he never did. His comment was something like, Gee. I guess there might be something wrong with those files, they no longer seem to be available. Since then, I have read that they are perfecting this and things will be better in the future. I have my fingers crossed that my cadillac of a printer doesn't end up being one with a "lack of features."

I use custom paper presets for all non-HP papers which by the way run out at a total of 20 custom papers maximum allowed in the list. After number 20, you have to uninstall to "make room" for another one. Why? Who knows? I hope they fix that one. How about 64, 128, 256, or 512 for a nice round computer type number of papers?

I can't expound on the "differences in firmware," except to mention things that didn't work for me perexpectations. I don't want to open those wounds up. I can say I tried to get answers. I phoned HP for a week and spoke to them daily on the telephone with Q&A's with HP support Mac Software, Color, Hardware Groups and the result was that I am were I was before I called with a few hopes and a number of pages of incongruity. In AUG I was told a firmware update would be addressing a lot of what I had asked them about and it could ship between SEP and DEC for my ps GP model. I am in a wait and see mode, but felt obligated to say what I have said so far, because you can be disappointed because....

There isn't a lot of clarity about the ps GP printer vrs the other non-ps printer. There is a lot more info out there specific to the non-ps printer, and I say test it before you believe it is so for the ps.

It's E-Z to assume what HP says in it's literature, on the website and in the newsletters and bulletins applies to the ps GP when it doesn't because they rarely make much of a distinction. You can only find out what really applies through experimentation, which depends on your needs, and the amount of time you want (can afford) to spend with it.

Assuming the firmware is going to change things anyway, I decided to wait for it. I had hoped it would be here by now.

I have to say that in many ways the printer is more than what I had hoped, and in many ways (after becoming a student of HP printer literature for over 2 months before purchasing and then working with it every day for an entire month), it has yet to live up to all the expectations I had for it.

So long for now, TOM

[casterle]

So far, the custom paper presets that you download and install isn't usable on my printer.

Until recently, the profiles that HP had on their website were for the non-ps printers only. Although there was no indication of this on the website, they would not work with the PS printers.

HP now has a profiles section specifically for the PS printers, and has labeled it as such. You will find the PS profiles here: http://tinyurl.com/23vmem

The web page referenced above also lists a number of non-HP papers and which HP profiles to use as the base paper when using them.

-Leroy

[dandeliondigital]

Until recently, the profiles that HP had on their website were for the non-ps printers only. Although there was no indication of this on the website, they would not work with the PS printers.
HP now has a profiles section specifically for the PS printers, and has labeled it as such. You will find the PS profiles here: http://tinyurl.com/23vmem
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Hi  -Leroy,
As stated earlier, I'm waiting for the update and busy working so...

Thanks for the link!

You might think HP might use their fancy driver update notice system to
let users know of such wonderful improvements. Come to think of it...

Why didn't they tell me when I was talking to them on the phone...

"the profiles on our website are for the non-ps printers only."

along with something like "we're working as fast as we can. Stay tuned"

No such luck. I sure hope distinguishing between the ps or non-ps printers is an HP trend.

So long for now, TOM

PS: Sorry if I sound cranky, but I need a break.

[casterle]

Why didn't they tell me when I was talking to them on the phone...

The techs you spoke to probably didn't know. I didn't find this out until I got to 3rd level support.

I think there's confusion within HP regarding the non-ps/ps versions of the printer.

[dandeliondigital]

The techs you spoke to probably didn't know. I didn't find this out until I got to 3rd level support.

I think there's confusion within HP regarding the non-ps/ps versions of the printer.
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Hi,
What  exactly is third level support?

When I contacted HP DesignJet support, I was first put in touch with Mac Group support and they listened and gave me a case number. They said I needed to talk to hardware group and then also color group with a color specialist. I also wanted to talk to a software (APS) specialist, but never did.

Sounds like a walk through a maze doesn't it?

Thanks, and so long for now, TOM

[casterle]

What  exactly is third level support?

If HP works like many tech companies do, 1st level support is very basic (gets information and tries obvious things; is the unit power on? have you installed the latest drivers? are you stoned out of your mind?). 2nd level support is a bit above that (has you try a few things and knows enough to suggest other courses based on an analysis of the results) and 3rd level support is at or near the developer level.

I had a couple of cases open with (I assume) 1st level support. Someone from Idaho called and told me that he was going to take charge of getting my problems sorted out, and that if any of the other support engineers called me I was to refer them to him (I assume he was 2nd level support). He answered many of my questions but couldn't get the profiles to load either, so he passed me up the line. Another engineer called and told me he was 3rd level support. He knew that the profiles on the web didn't work with PS versions of the printer.

[dandeliondigital]

If HP works like many tech companies do, 1st level support is very basic (gets information and tries obvious things; is the unit power on? have you installed the latest drivers? are you stoned out of your mind?). 2nd level support is a bit above that (has you try a few things and knows enough to suggest other courses based on an analysis of the results) and 3rd level support is at or near the developer level.
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Hi,
Just goes to show the tremendous vartiation within the company.

Oh well.

Thanks, and so long for now, TOM

[Edhopkins]

Thanks to all who replied to my question. I have learned much from the discussion.

Based on this discussion and on the fact that the GP package had the APS which almost by itself was worth the price of the package, we decided to bite the bullet and order the z3100ps GP.

We called the dealer, credit card in hand, only to find that the GP package was no longer available.  We were told the APS would be included in the basic package. We were not told anything about cost or what is happening tot he ps driver.


Ed, Baltimore

[scubastu]

I just took delivery of the Z3100ps GP.  Trying to install the APS and it wouldn't accept the software key. HP Canada has now opened a Case number for me.

s.