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Author Topic: Correcting Distorsion and perspective  (Read 7740 times)

samuel_js

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« on: September 20, 2007, 05:37:06 am »

Hi all,
I'm planning a little project where I'll be doing interiors and some arquitecture. My experience in this area has been only with 6x6 cameras but now I'll be using a H2 and a P21. The lens used is a HC 35mm. and I can see the limitations of I fixed plane camera. But I know all this can be more or less corrected in software so I hope you can help me out here...
So I'd like to star a thread about how to best correct lens distortion and perspective in Photoshop. Note that I'm not using movements of any kind and I'm not investing in that system right now, so the fix must be Photoshop.
I've has seen great arquit. photographers here and I'd like to learn the best workflow the get these pictures right. How to begin? Camera position etc... correcting workflow? I'm interested bothin interiors and buildings soo other pictures examples are very welcome.

I post the original picture without corrections and a first try:

Original

 

Hope you find this interesting....
« Last Edit: September 20, 2007, 05:44:30 am by samuel_js »
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stefan marquardt

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2007, 05:52:32 am »

that´s quite some distortion. check if it is symetric. if yes, use the photoshop distortion slider 2% or so (which corrects the mamiya 35mm fine). but it seems to be unsymetrical (looks like my 35mm af pentax). which is not so easy to correct. i would go to edit-transform-wrap and pull and push those nasty distortions back into place.
(no wonder, hasselblad offers a software solution for their new 28mm to fight distortion)

stefan
« Last Edit: September 20, 2007, 08:01:36 am by stefan marquardt »
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SeanBK

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2007, 09:16:46 am »

Samuel,
     To me it looks like the camera may not be level & did you crop some on left side of the pic (none or less on Rt side), as Stefan indicated it seems distortion is more on the right side. If that is the case than apply your modifications in Photoshop first, before cropping, that should help.
     Bottom line is the distortion with HC35 & Phase P21 can be in most cases be eliminated or reduced in Camera + Photoshop.
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MarkWelsh

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2007, 10:12:18 am »

That's not a lens I would recommend for architecture.

Fixing it is a two stage process: first either re-shoot the image level or rotate it in PS, then you'll need Kekus/Panotools LensFix to worm out the complex waveform distortion. Someone here may be able to help out with the magic numbers for that lens . . . ?

Rotating the image will smear out some finely resolved detail: it's always best to get in level in camera if you can.

I must admit that I've gotten rather lazy recently and am using the quick and dirty Distort adjustment for modestly sized reproductions.
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Tim Gray

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2007, 10:32:30 am »

The distortion problems are exacerbated at the wide angle end - which is what you need for interiors.  If it was me, I'd at least expirement with using a lens with limited distortion and stitch a multi row pano.  As long as you have a pano rail that let's you rotate around the entrance pupil you won't get parallax.  If you shot portrait, depending on the lens, you might not even need multi row.  If you wanted to get really fancy you could duplicate the panos at various focus points and combine in Helicon focus to get as much dof as you want.

Having said all that, the only problem that really jumps out of the second image is that the right hand window frame isn't vertical.  In image, transform, distort, you could pull the bottom right corner out a bit and that would solve most of that problem.  I actually find the distort tool more useful for perspective correction than the "perspective" transform option.  As for barrel, or pincushion the lens distortion filter seems to work OK but for mustache distortion, if that's a problem, I don't know what the solution is.
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marc gerritsen

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2007, 10:46:15 am »

to properly correct perspective in Photoshop go to edit/transform/distort
This will give you freedom to pull the building or interior in line from any angle
for slightly distorted photos you will not lose many pixels, but photos that are seriously distorted you will probably loose 1/2 of the pixels due to stretching.
If you have barrel distortion where you can see straight lines being curved at the edge of the photo go to filters/distort/lens correction.
If you have moustache-barrel-distortion from some of the retro focal wide angle lenses go to edit/transform/warp where you can arbitrarely push curved lines straight
Filter/liquify is good for minor adjustment but not for any problems discribed above
good luck
www.marcgerritsen.com
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MichaelEzra

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2007, 10:47:43 am »

Try SilkyPix, when it corrects for all kinds of distortion you dont loose resolution, as file gets larger to preserve details.
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marc gerritsen

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2007, 10:49:59 am »

I actually realized you might be shooting with an Hasselblad as shown on your avatar.
Are you using lens correction with flexcolor?
Flexcolor sort outs any barrel distortion
m
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samuel_js

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2007, 12:07:17 pm »

Hi,

@Marc
I'm usin PhaseOne, so I can't use flexcolor to correct the image.


I've been playing a little with the other tools, distort, warp, etc... They seem to do a better job than perspective correction.
Do you usually meter the room to know the exact position? How hight should the camera be positioned to take this image?
This image was more a test for the lightning so i wasn't very carefull about the aligment of the camera. I see... the image isn't centered, i didn't crop anything...
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Kirk Gittings

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2007, 12:19:13 pm »

I am seeing some barrel distortion, unlevel camera (right to left) and perspective divergence. It is all fairly easy fix with distort for the barrel, then an asymmetrical PC correction with the crop tool and then maybe some warp, but you have created many other problems like the lampshade which will be way out of wack once you straighten the window.

This image is a personal exercise? If it is an exercise for later doing commercial interior shooting......on the real thing you need to pay attention to the edges of the frame, the lampshades, the cords, the pillows, the foot of the hassack, the books under the table and the lighting balance outside/in. It is all about the composition, details and lighting.
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Thanks,
Kirk Gittings

samuel_js

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2007, 12:30:16 pm »

Quote
I am seeing some barrel distortion, unlevel camera (right to left) and perspective divergence. It is all fairly easy fix with distort for the barrel, then an asymmetrical PC correction with the crop tool and then maybe some warp, but you have created many other problems like the lampshade which will be way out of wack once you straighten the window.

This image is a personal exercise? If it is an exercise for later doing commercial interior shooting......on the real thing you need to pay attention to the edges of the frame, the lampshades, the cords, the pillows, the foot of the hassack, the books under the table and the lighting balance outside/in. It is all about the composition, details and lighting.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140720\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Kirk, yes I'm planning to do a few rooms of this house when everything is clean and well presented. I don't have a deadline yet, well before the snow cames I think... I was more like testing the lens and and the lightning. I've been asked to shoot this house house and I was there yesterday. I'll post other images. I've been using this lens for landscapes and  I really love the colors contrast etc..., but inside a house, the distortions and other problems become more obvious. So, I really need to learn this lens again...
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samuel_js

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2007, 01:33:11 pm »

Two more pictures of the house. It seems these are easier to correct...



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marc gerritsen

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2007, 07:52:37 pm »

Hi Samuel
There is no golden rule as to where to position the camera, if you look through most published photos you will however discover that veritical lines are true and when shooting-straight on that horizontal lines are also true.
If I go low I usually have something interestig in the forground or need a specific void for composition's sake.
Marc
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Kirk Gittings

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2007, 11:06:22 pm »

Samuel,

The best way to learn is to make every mistake in the book only once. 29 years later, switching to digital, I found another whole set of potential mistakes to make. It is a real advantage when you can work out problems on your own time rather than a clients.
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Thanks,
Kirk Gittings

Kumar

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2007, 11:37:33 pm »

If you haven't got one already, the first thing you might want is a grid screen for composing.  
In the third shot you posted, the picture frame on the left is cut off at the bottom, because of the way it hangs. You can prop up the back of the frame so that it hangs true, or eliminate the edge like you did for the picture on the right, or give it more space so that the lack of parallelism doesn't show up so much.
And move round objects away from the edges/corners of your frame.

Cheers,
Kumar
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jonstewart

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2007, 04:56:02 am »

Quote
Samuel,

The best way to learn is to make every mistake in the book only once. 29 years later, switching to digital, I found another whole set of potential mistakes to make. It is a real advantage when you can work out problems on your own time rather than a clients.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140876\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Kirk, I really like this advice...but which book? ... or is it all of them!

(I'm eagerly reading this thread and lots else, while I wait for my Mamiya 645 kit and P45 to arrive in a couple of weeks)

Back on a serious note, anybody have any books on architectural / interior they would consider a 'must have'?
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samuel_js

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2007, 05:09:09 am »

Quote
If you haven't got one already, the first thing you might want is a grid screen for composing. 
In the third shot you posted, the picture frame on the left is cut off at the bottom, because of the way it hangs. You can prop up the back of the frame so that it hangs true, or eliminate the edge like you did for the picture on the right, or give it more space so that the lack of parallelism doesn't show up so much.
And move round objects away from the edges/corners of your frame.

Cheers,
Kumar
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140880\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, of course! The distance from the edges to the chairs is no equal either. The table is not horizontal... this picture needs a bit of work. I used to work with a grid screen in my 503CW. I need one badly...

Quote
Kirk, I really like this advice...but which book? ... or is it all of them!

(I'm eagerly reading this thread and lots else, while I wait for my Mamiya 645 kit and P45 to arrive in a couple of weeks)

Back on a serious note, anybody have any books on architectural / interior they would consider a 'must have'?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140924\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, I'd like to know as well...
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Craig Lamson

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2007, 07:18:21 am »

Quote
Hi Samuel
There is no golden rule as to where to position the camera, if you look through most published photos you will however discover that veritical lines are true and when shooting-straight on that horizontal lines are also true.
If I go low I usually have something interestig in the forground or need a specific void for composition's sake.
Marc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140844\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I shoot a lot of single point perspective and I think its the hardest of all to get right.  Sometimes its not just camera position or lens problems than get in the way, its the room itself.  Not everying we see is plum and vertical nor level.  If a cabinet door is off or a window valance is poorly installed, it can stick out like a sore thumb.  I run into this on almost every shot I do on RV interiors.  Often the last resort is cutting and pasteing the offending part to correct the misalignment.

(studio shot of an rv)
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David WM

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2007, 09:55:47 am »

In regards to using a wide angle lens which exhibits some distortions and aberrations that can be fixed in Photoshop, wouldn't it be a practical solution to have your own auto correction in the form of an action in photoshop?
 I imagine the variables would be aperture and focus, and I suppose you could create one by shooting a grid pattern at various distances at each aperture and creating an action to correct the image at each aperture. Has anyone tried this or have any reason why it wouldn't work? It would save time in PP.
Maybe it could be something an enterprising technical type could market as a plug-in.
David
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Craig Lamson

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Correcting Distorsion and perspective
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2007, 11:27:13 am »

Quote
In regards to using a wide angle lens which exhibits some distortions and aberrations that can be fixed in Photoshop, wouldn't it be a practical solution to have your own auto correction in the form of an action in photoshop?
 I imagine the variables would be aperture and focus, and I suppose you could create one by shooting a grid pattern at various distances at each aperture and creating an action to correct the image at each aperture. Has anyone tried this or have any reason why it wouldn't work? It would save time in PP.
Maybe it could be something an enterprising technical type could market as a plug-in.
David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141211\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

PTLens works very well.
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