Softproofing: Confused

[OleDK]

In my classes I've been asked the question "but since we're using a custom profile for the printer and paper, doesn't that take care of the color matching?" No, because of different color gamuts. Remember that the photo has its own color gamut (depending on the working color space) and some of these color values can't be reproduced exactly with the chosen printer/paper combination. The numeric color values are translated through the color management system and always have to be adjusted for the gamut of a specific device.
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Nat, thanks a lot for a thorough explanation. That question which you have been asked in your classes is exactly the question I tried to start this thread with.

[Nat Coalson]

Nat, thanks a lot for a thorough explanation. That question which you have been asked in your classes is exactly the question I tried to start this thread with.

Regarding the gamuts of files and devices, another explanation I neglected to mention is that the printer profile describes the characteristics (and color gamut) of the printer/paper combination but does not alter it. So when printing from Photoshop (and using Photoshop to Manage Colors), Photoshop uses the printer profile in conjunction with the system CMS to render the print job. This is why making previous adjustments while soft-proofing is necessary.

However, if you print using a RIP (raster image processor) instead of printing from Photoshop, the RIP can actually send data that affects the behavior of the printer, so soft-proofing isn't as critical.

[Mark D Segal]

Nat, perhaps one could add to this that the trasnmitted luminance from a display is brighter and has more DR than reflected light especially from a matte printing paper, and the soft-proofing, with "Simulate Paper White" selected, helps to mimic the appearance of image luminosity on paper, allowing one to make the final luminosity tweaks under soft-proofing that will minimize disappointment about what emerges from the printer.

[nicobel]

I just watched the soft proofing film.  
I made a profile for Moab bright paper the same way they did in the video.  My problem is when I soft proof with paper color checked, I have a big shift in color.  It adds some kind of majenta in the photo.  
Actually I have printed a sepia photo without softproofing and my print is near what I see in my monitor regarding color.
What am I missing?

Thanks,
Nicole

[Schewe]

I just watched the soft proofing film. 
I made a profile for Moab bright paper the same way they did in the video.  My problem is when I soft proof with paper color checked, I have a big shift in color.  It adds some kind of majenta in the photo. 
Actually I have printed a sepia photo without softproofing and my print is near what I see in my monitor regarding color.
What am I missing?

Thanks,
Nicole
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A good profile? Seriously, how did you make the printer profile? What hardware, what software? Note that none of the software that uses a scanner in the process to create a printer profile will produce good profiles (in my experience). A spectrophotometer and a good software (Monaco Profiler of ProfileMaker or even an Eye-One and Eye-One Match) will be required...

[nicobel]

A good profile? Seriously, how did you make the printer profile? What hardware, what software? Note that none of the software that uses a scanner in the process to create a printer profile will produce good profiles (in my experience). A spectrophotometer and a good software (Monaco Profiler of ProfileMaker or even an Eye-One and Eye-One Match) will be required...
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I have exactly the same profiler than Michael has in the video:  eyeone photo.
When I softproof on photorag natural, I don't see this shift in color, only in the bright.  I made the profile the same way as we see in the video.  The photo I tried was a very light tone photo: a closeup of a baby in black and white with a little tone in it. I profile my papers since 3 years and the way it was done in the video was the way I was doing it.  My printer is the epson 7800
Thanks for your help
Nicole

[billg71]

"I you have a good profile, both the print and the softproof should look as much like the on-screen image as the printer's/paper's gamut will allow."

Ole, you answered your own question, but you may not have realized it. "as the printer's/paper's gamut will allow" is the key phrase in your post.

If the print is your final output, you have to use soft-proofing to let you see a close approximation of what will actually come out of your printer. Then you can make final adjustments to your image to optimize for what the printer/paper combination can actually produce. With today's technology, the printer/paper combination is the weakest link in the chain, if you don't soft-proof you're playing against the house. You may luck out occasionally but, over time, the house always wins.

You won't be able to nail it down absolutely, there's a big difference in the emissive image you see on your monitor and the reflective image you get from the print. But soft-proofing will get the two a lot closer than just shooting in the dark. And, given the cost of ink and paper, that's a "Good Thing".  

HTH,

Bill

[EricV]

Regarding the gamuts of files and devices, another explanation I neglected to mention is that the printer profile describes the characteristics (and color gamut) of the printer/paper combination but does not alter it. So when printing from Photoshop (and using Photoshop to Manage Colors), Photoshop uses the printer profile in conjunction with the system CMS to render the print job. This is why making previous adjustments while soft-proofing is necessary.
However, if you print using a RIP (raster image processor) instead of printing from Photoshop, the RIP can actually send data that affects the behavior of the printer, so soft-proofing isn't as critical.

Whoa, your previous post was very clear, but now you have lost me.  Are you really saying that if I have Photoshop manage colors, the only effect of the printer profile is to modify the soft-profiled monitor image?  So I will get the same print (from the same file on the same printer on the same paper) no matter what profile I use?  I hope this is not true.  I thought the whole point of a profile is to alter the values sent to the printer, to make the print match the file as closely as possible, whether printing from Photoshop or from a RIP.

[Sunesha]

Thanks alot. I also own Camera to print, as always beeing very confused person. This discussion made mind clear up a bit extra.

One day hopefully I will fully understand the black magic off camera to print. Thou the tutorial and this forum has helped me a great deal to understand alot more.

Cheers,