Harman Inkjet Gloss FB AL

[rgs]

  Cost is high but I think as similiar papers come to the market that should go down.  They are definitely on the right track.  Jim
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The high cost of ink jet photo paper has always puzzled me. It seems to me that it's very much the same as wet process paper without the emulsion, which should make it cheaper to produce. But the best ink jet paper is significantly higher than traditional photo paper.

RGS

[mballent]

The high cost of ink jet photo paper has always puzzled me. It seems to me that it's very much the same as wet process paper without the emulsion, which should make it cheaper to produce. But the best ink jet paper is significantly higher than traditional photo paper.

RGS
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Because they can charge as much as the market will bear.  We are willing to pay for premium paper and they know it.  More competition will force the price down.  

[D White]

Question,

Do the Harman FB papers require MK or PK black inks on an Epson 7800? To date, I only print on matte papers and would only swap to the PK ink on pain of death. (waiting for the next next generation of Epson printers that will finally have both inks on line at the same time).

Also, are these papers available in 24" rolls or just sheets.

[John R Smith]

For the Harman Gloss FB you must use the PK cartridge. The matt Harman papers use the MK cartridge, as you would expect. The paper is available in 24" rolls.

John

[Kalin Wilson]

Anyone who has used the paper on the Canon and Epson care to comment on how easily it scratches?

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I am expecting delivery of a box of the Harman Glossy FB AL any day now. I plan to profile it and print some tests on my Canon iPF5000. I can't say that I have any silver gelatin experience to compare to but I'll try to report my subjective results compared to other papers that I'm testing. I'll be looking at fragility also.

I'm looking forward to trying this paper!

Kalin

[KevinD]

I am expecting delivery of a box of the Harman Glossy FB AL any day now. I plan to profile it and print some tests on my Canon iPF5000. I can't say that I have any silver gelatin experience to compare to but I'll try to report my subjective results compared to other papers that I'm testing. I'll be looking at fragility also.

I'm looking forward to trying this paper!

Kalin
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I am an IPF5000 owner and I am very interested in your results.  Can you tell us what you will be using to profile the printer (hardware/software)?  Is it possible to make the profile available to others here?

I have a box of the paper coming today, but as expensive as it is, and without the hardware to profile it, I worry that I will use up my 15 sheets tweaking the printer driver settings.  It would be fantastic to have some guidelines about where to start with printer settings, and it would be nirvana to have an actual profile.

Thanks,
Kevin

[alexsar]

finally a great glossy papers with no buts...
But !
i am currently using the epson 4800
i noticed that when i use it with the harman paper recommendation of "watercolor paper radiant white" the advanced black and white  print option is not available; i therefore used the "premium glossy photo"setting and abw with excellent results; in color i used the harman recommended setting with my own eye one generated profiles with good results but i am wandering if anyone has tried other options
i would appreciate any comments
alexandros

[Dave Gurtcheff]

finally a great glossy papers with no buts...
But !
i am currently using the epson 4800
i noticed that when i use it with the harman paper recommendation of "watercolor paper radiant white" the advanced black and white  print option is not available; i therefore used the "premium glossy photo"setting and abw with excellent results; in color i used the harman recommended setting with my own eye one generated profiles with good results but i am wandering if anyone has tried other options
i would appreciate any comments
alexandros
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Alexandros:
I ordered a 50 ft roll of FB Al, but have not received it yet. I down loaded the Epson profiles for the Epson 7600 and 2200, from Harmon's site, and both say to select "Premium Glossy". After I receive the paper I will report back my results using the paper and canned profiles.
Regards
Dave G.

[Kalin Wilson]

I am an IPF5000 owner and I am very interested in your results.  Can you tell us what you will be using to profile the printer (hardware/software)?  Is it possible to make the profile available to others here?

I have a box of the paper coming today, but as expensive as it is, and without the hardware to profile it, I worry that I will use up my 15 sheets tweaking the printer driver settings.  It would be fantastic to have some guidelines about where to start with printer settings, and it would be nirvana to have an actual profile.

Thanks,
Kevin
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Kevin,
I am profiling with an Eye-One Pro and I will use the Atkinson 1452 patch target. I don't mind making the profile available. I'll look at making it available via the wiki or by contacting me. I expect to have the paper early in the week. I'll holler when I have some results.

Kalin

[John Hollenberg]

I am profiling with an Eye-One Pro and I will use the Atkinson 1452 patch target. I don't mind making the profile available. I'll look at making it available via the wiki or by contacting me.

Can't have it on the Wiki, sorry.  Would violate the EULA (license agreement) with Xrite.

--John

[Kalin Wilson]

Can't have it on the Wiki, sorry.  Would violate the EULA (license agreement) with Xrite.

--John
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Thanks, John. Took a look, you're right.

[Paul Sumi]

My tests were on my Epson R2400 with the standard K3 inkset, all in B/W from scanned medium format film, and printed via the Advanced B/W mode on the Epson (I do not use ICC profiles for B/W work). Out of the box, the paper looks and feels very good - it is crisp, has the right sort of "snap", and the surface is very smooth with a nice soft gloss.
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I'm another Epson R2400 owner.  I bought a couple of sample packs of the Gloss FB AL from Freestyle Photographic Supplies on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood, CA.  They are the local southern California purveyor of Harman papers.  Price for the 15 sheet package of 8.5"x11" is US$24 and is US$48 for the 15 sheet pack of 11"x17".

I'm testing with the standard K3 inks using Harman's canned profile for the R2400 on both color and B&W prints.  Initial results look very promising, in line with what others have reported.  The look and feel of the paper definitely take me back to my B&W darkroom days.

Paul

[mikeseb]

Can't have it on the Wiki, sorry.  Would violate the EULA (license agreement) with Xrite.

--John
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This is something new to me--forgive me if I'm off topic; but are you saying that if you create a profile with Eye One you are constrained by the EULA from sharing it with others?

I ask truly from ignorance and not from a desire to be argumentative.

Thanks in advance.

[John Hollenberg]

This is something new to me--forgive me if I'm off topic; but are you saying that if you create a profile with Eye One you are constrained by the EULA from sharing it with others?

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Yup.  The only exception is if you are creating the profile as part of a "profiling service", in which case you can make a profile for one person to use on one specific printer (by reading their specific target) and charge money for it.  That's why Andrew Rodney and others who offer the service for money are within the EULA.

--John

[mikeseb]

John, thanks for clearing up the EULA issue for me.

I've made a few B&W prints with my test pack of this paper, on an Epson 4000 no less. Those of you who've printed with this printer know that its forte is definitely NOT glossy paper. Nevertheless, I was pretty pleased with the results.

ImagePrint as yet has no profiles for this paper on any printer as far as I can tell (I sent in my request); and Harman's canned profile for the 4000 produced a print with a marked greenish color cast. I finally tried Roy Harrington's QuadToneRIP with a curve for Epson Ultrasmooth (I think it was). This produced a slightly warm toned B&W print without any perceptible color cast. There was much less bronzing or gloss differential than I've seen with other glossy papers on this printer; what little there was I abolished easily with my usual two coats of Premier Art Spray.

I had no problem with damage to the surface from the printer's various wheels and sprockets; but I did notice a few places where the surface had a few dots of "stuff" on them, maybe little balls of something; so I think a gentle brushing with my draftsman's brush will be in order with this paper as with the fine-art rags I'm used to using.

The prints do indeed have a depth and richness of blacks that looks very much like silver gelatin. Not yet ready to pronounce them the end-all and be-all, but clearly we are making progress. Looking forward to comparing them with the other baryta papers soon to appear--isn't a Hahnemuhle version in the pipeline?

[John Hollenberg]

I ran across another Baryta paper which has just been announced:

Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk

Here is the link to Google cache of a creativepro.com article:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:_T8nSw...clnk&cd=1&gl=us

--John

[ChrisJR]

I've just spent a week colour printing with the Harman Gloss FB AL paper and it's easily the best inkjet printer I've used to date and comes fairly close to traditional darkroom paper for quality. I can't report on what black & white prints are like as I still print these traditionally in the darkroom on Kentmere and Ilford FB papers.

I've used everything from Epson Premium to Hahnemuhle Rag / Permajet FB Royal and the colours, contrast and details are considerably better on the Harman, and as a bonus the paper is quite a bit cheaper than say FB Royal or RAG.

One thing that is a concern is how easily the paper marks. I print normally on both an Epson 3800 and R1800 but tried printing on a 7600 and it got scratched to hell. Also, the profiles on the Harman website, just like other paper manufacturers websites, were awful. QC was superb, every sheet was exactly the same in the box I purchased. Will be ordering more very soon.

[russell a]

One thing that is a concern is how easily the paper marks. I print normally on both an Epson 3800 and R1800 but tried printing on a 7600 and it got scratched to hell. Also, the profiles on the Harman website, just like other paper manufacturers websites, were awful. QC was superb, every sheet was exactly the same in the box I purchased. Will be ordering more very soon.
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I print on a 7600 and had some problems until I set the platen width to Wide (a "W" will appear in the lower left corner of the printer's LCD).  And, I found the profile terrific, no problem.  Strangely enough, though, the image that comes up in the preview screen looks terrible.  The first time, it took me a couple of minutes before I had the nerve to "push" the print button (the price of the sheet dancing in my head).  But, in spite of the preview appearance, images print fine.

[Dave Gurtcheff]

I print on a 7600 and had some problems until I set the platen width to Wide (a "W" will appear in the lower left corner of the printer's LCD).  And, I found the profile terrific, no problem.  Strangely enough, though, the image that comes up in the preview screen looks terrible.  The first time, it took me a couple of minutes before I had the nerve to "push" the print button (the price of the sheet dancing in my head).  But, in spite of the preview appearance, images print fine.
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Has anyone tried to print the 24" x 50' roll in a 7600? I have a roll on order, and the surface scratch issue has me concerned. I use a 7600.
Dave

[Jack Flesher]

Has anyone tried to print the 24" x 50' roll in a 7600? I have a roll on order, and the surface scratch issue has me concerned. I use a 7600.
Dave
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The "scratches" on the Epsons are most likely head strikes, which can be eliminated by setting the platten gap wider and/or setting paper thickness thicker.  With the x600 Epsons, it could also be wheel marks. You can tell which by which direction they run relative to printing directions. This can be alleviated by adding a bit of drying time to each pass, like 1/2 to 1 second. This slows down printing but alleviates the wheel marks.  

Cheers,