Hy6 : Reality vs. Utopia

[eronald]

As I wanted to purchase a MFDB system, I emailed Sinar for a price, was referred to a dealer and given a quote. I asked about the prism finder and was told it would not be available at launch.

At this pinprick of realism the utopia balloon burst. I went and ordered a system from another brand. Hopefully, my back will be able to mount on the Hy6 some day. If not, I'll probably have a lot of fairly decent imagery from brand M to make up for it.

And maybe somebody can explain to Sinar that *the photographer takes the picture, not the camera*. If the photographer doesn't like to hold the camera a specific way eg. looking down into it, he won't buy it.

Edmund

[rethmeier]

Edmund,
the Hy6 will be for sale in Sydney in October and I've been quoted $2000 AUD for the 90% finder.
Europe must be on a different timezone!

[thsinar]

9 months behind .. euh, sorry 9 HOURS!

 

Thierry

Edmund,
the Hy6 will be for sale in Sydney in October and I've been quoted $2000 AUD for the 90% finder.
Europe must be on a different timezone!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=137015\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[rethmeier]

Thanks Thierry!
See you on Saturday in Bangkok?
WR

[eronald]

Below, the text of the message I got, after the price quote, from the dealer who Sinar referred me to. I don't think this is a confidential communication, nor is it a rumor. In any case, I have now placed an order for a system from a different manufacturer.

Let me say again that I like the specs and prototypes of the Hy6 a lot, but it's clear that availability is drifting well after what had originally been announced.


Edmund

------------
Hello Edmund

the eye-level finder is not released right now.
and i dont know when it will come.

the eMotion 75LV will shot with max. 400 ISO.

Kind regards,

------------

[thsinar]

Sure!

Give me a call, when ready.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thanks Thierry!
See you on Saturday in Bangkok?
WR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=137018\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

Dear Edmund,

let's get some serious information and post now:

- the finder will be available in November (for endusers)
- the Hy6 will be available in October (for endusers)

Then:

the Sinar Hy6 was originally planed to be released the third week of July for the endusers, and end of June as demo units for our distributors.

Yes, you are right, there is a difference with the planed schedule!

And you put us on the point of your gun for these 2 or 3 months delay for the camera, and may be one month after the camera for the release of the finder? Is that really serious?

I might be wrong, but it seems to me that this happens with all products such as a camera, and 2 or 3 months do not really seem for me to be an eternity!

Best regards,
Thierry

Let me say again that I like the specs and prototypes of the Hy6 a lot, but it's clear that availability is drifting well after what had originally been announced.
Edmund


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=137028\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[pss]

Dear Edmund,

let's get some serious information and post now:

- the finder will be available in November (for endusers)
- the Hy6 will be available in October (for endusers)

Then:

the Sinar Hy6 was originally planed to be released the third week of July for the endusers, and end of June as demo units for our distributors.

Yes, you are right, there is a difference with the planed schedule!

And you put us on the point of your gun for these 2 or 3 months delay for the camera, and may be one month after the camera for the release of the finder? Is that really serious?

I might be wrong, but it seems to me that this happens with all products such as a camera, and 2 or 3 months do not really seem for me to be an eternity!

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i think edmund is referring to a problem mentioned here (and experienced first hand by me)...sinar information.....getting anything out of sinar is like pulling teeth.....my last experience was when i received the brandnew sinar/foba catalog in the mail and found a perfect solution to a problem (backgroundstand,.....anyway..does not matter...) it took me 2 weeks and hourlong phonecalls to who knows who to to come up with a price and that it would be a pain in the a.. to get (this from somebody from foba).....
if the guy who wrote edmund that email with that info was working for me, i would have a serious talk with him.....but almost everybody i hae ever talked to from sinar seems to be like that....misinformed to say the least......

leaf was years late with their software....phase is late now with theirs....people are used to sliding delivery dates....but sales people who either seem like they don't want you to buy or don't know what they are selling can ruin a company.....

edmund: what did you end up getting? RZ with Pback? not too many WLFs out there....

[thsinar]

Well noted, Paul: thanks for the information.

It will be duely reported/forwarded.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

i think edmund is referring to a problem mentioned here (and experienced first hand by me)...sinar information.....getting anything out of sinar is like pulling teeth.....my last experience was when i received the brandnew sinar/foba catalog in the mail and found a perfect solution to a problem (backgroundstand,.....anyway..does not matter...) it took me 2 weeks and hourlong phonecalls to who knows who to to come up with a price and that it would be a pain in the a.. to get (this from somebody from foba).....
if the guy who wrote edmund that email with that info was working for me, i would have a serious talk with him.....but almost everybody i hae ever talked to from sinar seems to be like that....misinformed to say the least......

leaf was years late with their software....phase is late now with theirs....people are used to sliding delivery dates....but sales people who either seem like they don't want you to buy or don't know what they are selling can ruin a company.....

edmund: what did you end up getting? RZ with Pback? not too many WLFs out there....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=137156\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[pss]

Well noted, Paul: thanks for the information.

It will be duely reported/forwarded.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i have said it before and i will say it again....sinar/foba/broncolor have some of the most amazing, most advanced photography tools available today...and the Hy6 will be a great addition....i just hope it won't be hindered by the unfortunately usual problems....

if everybody was like you thierry, we would not be talking about this...

[eronald]

edmund: what did you end up getting? RZ with Pback? not too many WLFs out there....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=137156\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Paul,

I don't like WLFs, *need* eye-level, which is exactly why I went for an M645 with P45+back. I don't particularly like the M but I know I can use the finder, the lenses are gentler than the H glass and very available, and in my tests the AF worked really well. At least the technology I'm buying should be debugged by now, I know exactly how to postprocess with the color I want, and hopefully *one day* I can move the back to the Hy6. In the mean time I need to take some pictures, and if the M is really bad there's always Contax


Edmund

[Mort54]

I have to agree with some of what Edmund and others have said - however well intentioned Sinar the parent company is, their distributor network leaves a lot to be desired. Getting information from the U.S. distributor was incredibly painful, and in the end I decided that even if they came thru the next day, I just didn't want to do business with them (to be fair to the U.S. distributor, they told me they just couldn't get the information from Sinar, so who knows who's really to blame). I figured if it was this painful BEFORE THE SALE, imagine how terrible it was going to be after the sale, when you need help on some issue or another, and their's no incentive any more for them to be responsive. In the end, I did just what Edmund (and probably many others) did - bought a Mamiya/Phase One system.

[RicAgu]

Well,

I have had a different experience with SinarBron here in the US.  I have found them to be very forthcoming and the east coast rep has been great.

He was very upfront with regard to the Hy6 and said they woud be available in Late Spetember /October and come with the Finder at the latest October / November.  My main concern with Sinar backs is the poor high ISO range.  Even two of their biggest retailers pushed Leaf and Hasselblad to me when requesting files for higher ISO use.  As most shooters, we only really need usuable 400 and I am sure everyone will be happy.

I hope that Sinar is able to deal with these issues. Because the eMotion75 seems to be a great product with a few small issues.

Edmund, Congrats on the M645 w/ P45+.  So your Phase concerns went away?

Best,

Richard

[olaf]

From a UK perspective I (somewhat sadly) have to agree with the majority of posts in this forum. I have huge respect for Rollei and Sinar products and I really hope the HY6 succeeds. But on contacting a UK dealer I was told by the MD that he would get the head sales guy to call. Three weeks later still no call. Meantime I had found an excellent Phase One dealer who loaned me different backs and M645 lenses to test. Before I made a purchase decision I rang the Sinar dealer again and spoke to the salesman who spent most of the call rubbishing the Leaf version of the HY6, said he would have a demo in July/August and promised to stay in touch. As of today still no call, not even a 'holding' email. Such utter incompetence not only loses short term sales, it damages the longer term status of the brand. I bought Mamiya/P30+
Thierry: if you have any influence back at the HQ maybe you could recommend their marketing and sales director (they do have one?) reads this forum, does market research amongst potential buyers, or maybe just goes on a course to learn about professional customer marketing?
Olaf

i think edmund is referring to a problem mentioned here (and experienced first hand by me)...sinar information.....getting anything out of sinar is like pulling teeth.....my last experience was when i received the brandnew sinar/foba catalog in the mail and found a perfect solution to a problem (backgroundstand,.....anyway..does not matter...) it took me 2 weeks and hourlong phonecalls to who knows who to to come up with a price and that it would be a pain in the a.. to get (this from somebody from foba).....
if the guy who wrote edmund that email with that info was working for me, i would have a serious talk with him.....but almost everybody i hae ever talked to from sinar seems to be like that....misinformed to say the least......

leaf was years late with their software....phase is late now with theirs....people are used to sliding delivery dates....but sales people who either seem like they don't want you to buy or don't know what they are selling can ruin a company.....

edmund: what did you end up getting? RZ with Pback? not too many WLFs out there....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=137156\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

Dear Olaf,

Obviously I have (a little) influence at the HQ, but not in the UK. I will however and like always contact our sales manager in this area as well as forward your critic to our distributor.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

From a UK perspective I (somewhat sadly) have to agree with the majority of posts in this forum. I have huge respect for Rollei and Sinar products and I really hope the HY6 succeeds. But on contacting a UK dealer I was told by the MD that he would get the head sales guy to call. Three weeks later still no call. Meantime I had found an excellent Phase One dealer who loaned me different backs and M645 lenses to test. Before I made a purchase decision I rang the Sinar dealer again and spoke to the salesman who spent most of the call rubbishing the Leaf version of the HY6, said he would have a demo in July/August and promised to stay in touch. As of today still no call, not even a 'holding' email. Such utter incompetence not only loses short term sales, it damages the longer term status of the brand. I bought Mamiya/P30+
Thierry: if you have any influence back at the HQ maybe you could recommend their marketing and sales director (they do have one?) reads this forum, does market research amongst potential buyers, or maybe just goes on a course to learn about professional customer marketing?
Olaf
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=137239\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[pss]

Paul,

I don't like WLFs, *need* eye-level, which is exactly why I went for an M645 with P45+back. I don't particularly like the M but I know I can use the finder, the lenses are gentler than the H glass and very available, and in my tests the AF worked really well. At least the technology I'm buying should be debugged by now, I know exactly how to postprocess with the color I want, and hopefully *one day* I can move the back to the Hy6. In the mean time I need to take some pictures, and if the M is really bad there's always Contax
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

congrats! i think the mamiya system is the most versatile and delivers the best cost/value/depenability out right now.....i actually just sold all my 645 stuff, but love the RZ....the mamiya phase solution is bulletproof, can't go wrong.....

i am too hoping for the day when the Hy6 will be able to accept phase backs...the day will come and by then the first (as with all new systems) problems with the Hy6 will be ironed out....patience....until then we can enjoy our backs and take some pics...

[Caracalla]

Paul,

I don't like WLFs, *need* eye-level, which is exactly why I went for an M645 with P45+back. I don't particularly like the M but I know I can use the finder, the lenses are gentler than the H glass and very available, and in my tests the AF worked really well. At least the technology I'm buying should be debugged by now, I know exactly how to postprocess with the color I want, and hopefully *one day* I can move the back to the Hy6. In the mean time I need to take some pictures, and if the M is really bad there's always Contax
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=137175\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

IMHO P45+Mamiya645AFDII is a winning commercial combination, not to mention value for money   with minimum if no problems at all.

[span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']CONGRATULATIONS![/span]