Noise Ninja and Photokit

[liversb]

This is probably a newby type question, and would appreciate input from the more experienced. I have both Noise Ninja and Photokit add-in's for PS CS2. My question relates to preparing for LARGE prints. Should I be trying to use both products and if so which one first (or last)?. Generally I find that with new digital images, the Photokit with smoothing produces what looks best on the screen. However with slide scans, I find that Noise Ninja does the job and I only use a little 'creative brush' sharpening with Photokit.
I know in the Photoshop training stuff I have done, they say that sharpening must be done last, but in a sense I see noise reduction almost as an integral part of sharpening, hence my question. I have been through the MR/JS 'Camera to Print' and the Lightroom training and although both products are mentioned, I did not pick up a clue to answer my question. In fact it gets more complicated considering the three sharpening phases that they talk about (capture, edit & print).
Can anybody help?

[feppe]

According to Noise Ninja manual, my experience and IIRC LL Camera-to-Print Tutorial, noise reduction should be done before any sharpening - otherwise you'll sharpen the noise, which is most probably not something what you're looking for since you're using NN in the first place.

If by big prints you mean enlarging the photos drastically, that might mean you have to do more post-processing and be more careful at which point to sharpen and how much. But that's something I have little experience, unfortunately.

[bjanes]

I have both Noise Ninja and Photokit add-in's for PS CS2. My question relates to preparing for LARGE prints. Should I be trying to use both products and if so which one first (or last)?. Generally I find that with new digital images, the Photokit with smoothing produces what looks best on the screen. However with slide scans, I find that Noise Ninja does the job and I only use a little 'creative brush' sharpening with Photokit.
I know in the Photoshop training stuff I have done, they say that sharpening must be done last, but in a sense I see noise reduction almost as an integral part of sharpening, hence my question. I have been through the MR/JS 'Camera to Print' and the Lightroom training and although both products are mentioned, I did not pick up a clue to answer my question. In fact it gets more complicated considering the three sharpening phases that they talk about (capture, edit & print).
Can anybody help?
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Sharpening and noise reduction are antagonistic processes. Most everyone recommends that sharpening should be done after NR, lest the noise be sharpened. However, as Bruce Fraser points out in his Real World Sharpening book, excessive NR may yield images that can not be sharpened without bringing back the noise or producing artifacts.

If the noise is not too extreme, then PhotoKit's smooth and sharpen may be sufficient. With high ISO digital photos and scanned film (especially negatives), a dedicated NR program such as Noise Ninja may be needed. In this case, one should turn off sharpening and NR in the camera or raw converter and do NR as a first step. NR can be done on a layer with the edges protected with a mask (surface mask). This is the inverse of the edge mask that PhotoKit uses. It is important not to overdo the NR for the above reason.

You could then try to use the PhotoKit tool. Often, the sharpening brings back the noise and produces artifacts. In that case I use the sharpening built into my NR program, currently NoiseWare Pro. This program does offer some detail protection (? edge masking) in its sharpening and does a reasonably good job of sharpening, but I haven't tried to best it in Photoshop.