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Author Topic: out gassing  (Read 11623 times)

Bruce Watson

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out gassing
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2007, 05:44:14 pm »

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Just to make sure we're on the same wavelength:  The hair dryer doesn't just cause the water in the ink to evaporate faster, thus drying the ink in a minute instead of an hour, but also takes care of the slowly-evaporating glycol (permanent glass-fogging) problem???

Lisa
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Yes. You can smell the glycols and glycerins coming off the print. The water dries off a print surprisingly quickly (especially a fiber [non-RC type] print), but the glycols have a very low partial pressure and take forever to evaporate unless you help.

But you don't need to believe me. It's extraordinarily easy to try it for yourself. Print something you are ready to frame, dry it with a hair dryer, frame it right away, and immediately hang it in the sun. See what happens.

There are a couple of good "side effects" with most pigment inks. With some you can literally watch Dmax increase (especially true of the Cone PiezoTones, Jon Cone used to say it would increase Dmax by a stop or more). A lesser effect is some gamut increase from color inksets. I can just barely see this with the older UltraChromes but I'm told it's measurable.

No one will argue that it's not a PITA to do this. So is it worth it to you? Clearly, YMMV.
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Lisa Nikodym

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out gassing
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2007, 07:13:41 pm »

Thanks for clarifying, Bruce.  I'll definitely give the hair dryer a try next time I'm printing (maybe one with and one without for comparison) and see how it goes.  Do you still do the "curing" with plain paper afterwards, or can you skip that step?

Lisa
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Alaska

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out gassing
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2007, 03:21:07 am »

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But you don't need to believe me. It's extraordinarily easy to try it for yourself. Print something you are ready to frame, dry it with a hair dryer, frame it right away, and immediately hang it in the sun. See what happens.

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Curious, what happens?  Hopefully, nothing!

Jim
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Mark Graf

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out gassing
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2007, 09:54:17 pm »

Maybe I am just being paranoid, but off-gassing makes me nervous.  It is the primary reason why I stick with matte finish papers because it is the only way I know of that is guaranteed not to have it.   I had some prints off-gas that I submitted to a gallery, and it has made me paranoid ever since.

I haven't read to date a sure fire method to prevent it.  Am I being overly paranoid?
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Nill Toulme

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out gassing
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2007, 10:44:37 pm »

Are matte papers utterly immune from it?

Nill
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Bruce Watson

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out gassing
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2007, 09:33:01 am »

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Maybe I am just being paranoid, but off-gassing makes me nervous.  It is the primary reason why I stick with matte finish papers because it is the only way I know of that is guaranteed not to have it.   I had some prints off-gas that I submitted to a gallery, and it has made me paranoid ever since.

I haven't read to date a sure fire method to prevent it.  Am I being overly paranoid?
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Outgassing isn't a paper issue. It's an ink issue. Or more specifically, an ink carrier issue. The glycols and glycerins are in the ink carrier of pigment inks to control clogging and pigment settling, among other things.

Outgassing is seen primarily with glossy papers because most glossy papers are RC "barrier" papers. In RC papers the ink carrier components have to leave the paper through the print surface because the route out the back is blocked. But that doesn't mean that non-RC papers or matte papers don't outgas, because they do.

And if you've been reading this thread you have read a "sure fire method to prevent it." But like most things, to find out if any particular processing method is right for you, you have to do your own testing.
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Bruce Watson
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Lisa Nikodym

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out gassing
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2007, 06:50:20 pm »

I made two identical prints the day before yesterday, used a hair dryer on one (about 30 seconds for a 6"x9" print, which slightly curled the paper), then put them under plain paper for a day, then framed them in the clip frame.  I will take it apart in two weeks and compare the two to see the difference, and report back.

Regarding matte papers, I've tested a number of papers for outgassing, and have seen no evidence of outgassing from any matte papers (by looking for fogging on glass in direct contact with the print).   I'm not saying that no outgassing is going on, just that there appears to be no adverse effect from it.  I have yet to find any glossy or semi-gloss papers that had none at all (this is before trying the hair dryer solution), but some have a pretty negligible amount, others a great deal.

Lisa
« Last Edit: August 26, 2007, 06:51:07 pm by nniko »
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Lisa Nikodym

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out gassing
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2007, 01:21:11 pm »

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I made two identical prints the day before yesterday, used a hair dryer on one (about 30 seconds for a 6"x9" print, which slightly curled the paper), then put them under plain paper for a day, then framed them in the clip frame. I will take it apart in two weeks and compare the two to see the difference, and report back.

OK, it's been two weeks.  I took the frame apart, and looked for outgassing fog on the glass.  *Both* sides of the glass (i.e. under both prints) looked exactly the same, with the same small amount of fog.  At least with this ink/paper set (Epson 3800 with Ilford Galerie Smooth Gloss), using a hair dryer made no difference.

Lisa
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Mark Graf

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« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2007, 02:28:22 pm »

Thank you for sharing the results of your test Lisa.  This is exactly why I mentioned 'being paranoid' about this.   Maybe Bruce would provide more details in what exact inks and paper combination that his hair dryer method seems 'a sure fire method.'
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