Leaf aptus 65s or h3d-31

[ulriktofte]

I am just about to buy my first digital back, and have tested two different backs the leaf Aptus 22 and the hasselblad h3d- 31. i was suppose to test the leaf aptus 65s but the dealer had rented it out for the weekend. the decision stands between hasselblad h3d-31 or the Leaf 65s.

i need to make a dissuasion by Monday but since i have not jet tested the 65s i can only guess that the quality of the file is similar the one from the hd3-31? Can i assume that the file is similar to the one from the h3d-31?

The leaf is a little bit more expensive, but the screen on the hasselblad is a joke! And you only get one year of warranty when you buy a hasselblad and three years when you buy a Leaf.

I have heard that the leaf software, was an ongoing process but they should have reached a tolerant level with the final version (Leaf Capture 11). The software to the hasselblad is not some thing that one brag about but it does the job?


i have almost decided to go for the Leaf, since of the large screen on the back, and the capture-speed, but i would like to  hear the downsides and the upsides, or just any comments that will help me with the choice.

the only choice for the camera is the Hasselblad h2, i do not find any other that has the same quality or?

Today I only uses the Canon ds mark II, and is very pleased with my portraits, but if there is some distance between me at the subject it is no good.

Thanks

Ulrik

[AndreNapier]

It is only my opinion but after intensive trials with all major DB I decided on Leaf. I use 75s which is essentially the same as 65s. I have nothing to complain during my year with 75 and 75s.
Previously I used Phase for about six years. I had HassyD back in my studio for 3 days but was not really impressed with it as compare to Phase at that time. I find the image quality of Leaf sensor superior to the competition. Leaf 11 is very workable and super stable. Over all I am very happy with my choice.

Http://AndreNapier.com

[rethmeier]

Don't forget that with the Leaf,you can get the new Leaf AFI(Hy6) camera with the Schneider,Zeiss lenses.
The Hy6 will be certainly worth a look!
Cheers,
Willem.

[MarkKay]

HI i used the H2 and Leaf 65 and am very happy with the images and its performance in general.   I have not compared it to the H3D-31 so I cannot offer a valid opinion.  The only concern i have at this point is the fact that the 28mm HC lens is not chipped for the H2, and it is likely there will be more lenses that do not function on the H2.  

I am just about to buy my first digital back, and have tested two different backs the leaf Aptus 22 and the hasselblad h3d- 31. i was suppose to test the leaf aptus 65s but the dealer had rented it out for the weekend. the decision stands between hasselblad h3d-31 or the Leaf 65s.

i need to make a dissuasion by Monday but since i have not jet tested the 65s i can only guess that the quality of the file is similar the one from the hd3-31? Can i assume that the file is similar to the one from the h3d-31?

The leaf is a little bit more expensive, but the screen on the hasselblad is a joke! And you only get one year of warranty when you buy a hasselblad and three years when you buy a Leaf.

I have heard that the leaf software, was an ongoing process but they should have reached a tolerant level with the final version (Leaf Capture 11). The software to the hasselblad is not some thing that one brag about but it does the job?
i have almost decided to go for the Leaf, since of the large screen on the back, and the capture-speed, but i would like to  hear the downsides and the upsides, or just any comments that will help me with the choice.

the only choice for the camera is the Hasselblad h2, i do not find any other that has the same quality or?

Today I only uses the Canon ds mark II, and is very pleased with my portraits, but if there is some distance between me at the subject it is no good.

Thanks

Ulrik
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[Jack Varney]

I can not imagine why you would not also test the Phase backs. If you are testing to make a valued judgement this would be smart, in my opinion.

[rethmeier]

Or the Sinar eMotion backs?

[johnE]

I looked at the leaf on Friday - very nice back. While the screen is large it is very hard to see outside in my opinion. The touch interface is nice and while I have not compared the images to the Phase images, I am sure they compare. I am leaning towards the Phase because I am worried about the software and it would require the purchase of an MAC. Everything seems to have its trade offs.

[paulhu]

Why are most of you comparing the LCD screens on the digital backs?  What happened to the film days when you have nothing to preview until you develop the film.

I only use the screens to check the histogram, whethere it is a Nikon or Hasselblad, which I had both.  I don't care if the LCD screens are in B&W, as long as it gives me the important data and information that I need.

I just sold my H2, and I am upgrading my H1D to H3D-31 (have not received it yet), and that was the least expensive way instead of purchasing a third party digital back for my H2.

[MarkKay]

The issue of the back in sunlight is real and problematic.  However I purchased a foldable cover for the back that does pretty well in allowing me to see the interface in bright sun. I think i say the advertisement for the cover on this website.  it was 250 dollars or so -- not cheap

I looked at the leaf on Friday - very nice back. While the screen is large it is very hard to see outside in my opinion. The touch interface is nice and while I have not compared the images to the Phase images, I am sure they compare. I am leaning towards the Phase because I am worried about the software and it would require the purchase of an MAC. Everything seems to have its trade offs.
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[johnE]

Why are most of you comparing the LCD screens on the digital backs?  What happened to the film days when you have nothing to preview until you develop the film.

I only use the screens to check the histogram, whethere it is a Nikon or Hasselblad, which I had both.  I don't care if the LCD screens are in B&W, as long as it gives me the important data and information that I need.

I just sold my H2, and I am upgrading my H1D to H3D-31 (have not received it yet), and that was the least expensive way instead of purchasing a third party digital back for my H2.
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The issue is it is difficult to see anything on the leaf back in sunlight, image or histogram.

[Dustbak]

I have an Aptus17 and an CF39. The image quality of both is excellent though it is very hard to compare a 17MP back with a 39MP.

The 31 Hasselblad uses microlenses so if you plan using your back on something that has movements. Don't.

I found the Leaf is much more user friendly than the Hasselblad. It is less prone to funky problems. Operating the Leaf is a no-brainer. The CF can be a real bitch if you haven't set everything completely right. Stuff like your CCD being out of sync with your camera is nasty. I also found the distance tolerance of the back/camera combination is much more critical with the CF. I need to shim one of my cameras to get it to focus on the CCD. The same camera never had this problem with the Leaf back.

Image quality. The Leaf has gorgeous images right out of the back with a bit more abundant colors than the Hasselblad. After getting to know the Hasselblad you can achieve similar quality, actually a bit more realistic I found.

I do believe the problems I have encountered with the Hasselblad are due to the fact it is a CF which works with the adapter plates. Truly they are not so much problems but probably just me not knowing the quirks of the system yet.

Display, I find with both backs the display dismal. I use it mainly to check on the Histogram. Talking about that I find the histogram display of the Leaf better to judge and view.

Software. The whole issue of the Leaf having bad software is currently a thing of the past. With LC11, RD and ACR (this includes Lightroom, Bridge and CS3) all doing a great job on Leaf files I would almost say Leaf currently has the best software options available of all backs!!!

The Hasselblad you need to use either Flexcolor to process to tiff of jpg or convert to DNG. This is a pain in the butt and I would have loved the option of generating DNG on the fly while shooting tethered with flexcolor (bummer it is not an option).

You cannot go wrong with either one is my believe. Both have advantages and disadvantages. You just have to determine what is important to you. Personally if the choice would be the 31 or the 65s, I would go for the 65s.

[Prakash Patel]

The issue is it is difficult to see anything on the leaf back in sunlight, image or histogram.
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[pprdigital]

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....mode=linearplus
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That shade appear to be identical also to the Lee Filters version - I believe they're the same. So any Lee Filters authorized dealer can provide that solution, although Lee sells them direct for $250, there's enough room for dealers to sell them easily at $225.

One note - if you use it outside and look straight in, you'll see a nice bright reflection of yourself, so be sure to angle the viewer when using it.

Steve Hendrix
PPR
www.ppratlanta.com

[pixelpro]

I have just looked all the high end digital kits and settled for Hasselblad's H3D 39. I chose it because of its flexibilty. I can use it tethered to my computer or to my imagebank. The lenses and software are all specifically engineered to fit the camera and the back. Upgrades can be done online and the company has a upgrade policy for the future. I considered all this important for me and my practice.

The other very important consideration is after sales service. Hasselblad has delivered that to me in personal one2one sessions, loaned lenses to try in order to decide which ones were right for me.

Anyone concerned with size of LCD may is not a candidate for the above kit. Whatever you chose the decision needs to be very carefully considered and not made in a hurry. Monday seems ridiculous. Who will choose your new kit  - one of us you have never met? Don't leave your decision to chance.

Find out how much support the company you buy from is likely to give you. Will they be there for you when you need them, what happens when you camera needs a service will someone speak to you over the phone at a moments notice to guide you through a tough moment.  

You have to choose your own equipment in the end so please do your homework and get an extension beyond Monday.

[H1/A75 Guy]

I shoot my H1/A75 extensively, handheld, ASA 50, outdoors, in bright sun. I do not concern myself with not being able to see the back's LCD ourtdoors. The histogram in the H1 grip is a very accurate indicator of proper exposure and is easily adjustable. I have the Lee LCD hood for the A75 and it works beautifully in bright sun. But, it is too much bother to use while shooting so and I use it to reveiw my shots outdoors. Since I use fill flash outdoors and studio flash indoors I have not bothered to upgrade to the 75s. I figure I'm always waiting for the flash to recycle anyway, why bother with a faster back. Maybe I'm short-sighted.

David

[MarkKay]

I am curious about your comment with the poor performance of the 31D with a view camera. I wonder if this is going to be problematic when and if Hassy provides some T/S lens options.   As I said I am happy with the leaf aptus 65 on both the hassy H2 and View camera and also angry that Hasselblad is limiting their new lenses to the H3D system.

 I also agree woith you  that CS3 does a very good job handling the leaf RAW files. On occassion have to reboot the back on the Hassy H2 but that is fairly infrequently.  

I have an Aptus17 and an CF39. The image quality of both is excellent though it is very hard to compare a 17MP back with a 39MP.

The 31 Hasselblad uses microlenses so if you plan using your back on something that has movements. Don't.

I found the Leaf is much more user friendly than the Hasselblad. It is less prone to funky problems. Operating the Leaf is a no-brainer. The CF can be a real bitch if you haven't set everything completely right. Stuff like your CCD being out of sync with your camera is nasty. I also found the distance tolerance of the back/camera combination is much more critical with the CF. I need to shim one of my cameras to get it to focus on the CCD. The same camera never had this problem with the Leaf back.

Image quality. The Leaf has gorgeous images right out of the back with a bit more abundant colors than the Hasselblad. After getting to know the Hasselblad you can achieve similar quality, actually a bit more realistic I found.

I do believe the problems I have encountered with the Hasselblad are due to the fact it is a CF which works with the adapter plates. Truly they are not so much problems but probably just me not knowing the quirks of the system yet.

Display, I find with both backs the display dismal. I use it mainly to check on the Histogram. Talking about that I find the histogram display of the Leaf better to judge and view.

Software. The whole issue of the Leaf having bad software is currently a thing of the past. With LC11, RD and ACR (this includes Lightroom, Bridge and CS3) all doing a great job on Leaf files I would almost say Leaf currently has the best software options available of all backs!!!

The Hasselblad you need to use either Flexcolor to process to tiff of jpg or convert to DNG. This is a pain in the butt and I would have loved the option of generating DNG on the fly while shooting tethered with flexcolor (bummer it is not an option).

You cannot go wrong with either one is my believe. Both have advantages and disadvantages. You just have to determine what is important to you. Personally if the choice would be the 31 or the 65s, I would go for the 65s.
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[Dustbak]

I was adviced against it by various people that have tried using a sensor with microlenses on stuff with movements. I have not tried this myself, sometimes I follow peoples advice

I am sure we will hear more when Hassie comes with T/S lenses. Maybe they will solve it with software correction.

I have seen A65 files that have no problems with it.

BTW. My A17 now and than stops as well however most of the time it is only busy and unresponsive at that time. After a couple of minutes it returns to normal again. That is about the only problem I have with the thing (besides the green).

[ulriktofte]

Thanks everyone for their input. I did my homework you just got the short version.   my Friends here in Denmark all shoot with the leaf on a Hasselblad h2. My friend in sweden shoot on the hasselblad h3d-31, but i just wanted some more experiences before i decided.

I use the histogram, but i think I'm that kind of photographer that likes to see what you got on the spot. therefor i would like to get one with a usable LCD. (It is nice to know that you can buy a hood that can be used in the sunlight, even though it seems a little bit expensive... i read the other link concerning that.
I did not think that there were a alternative to the Hasselblad. The leaf AFI system, but i will not be available for how long...

Thanks for you time.

Ulrik

[AndreNapier]

Ulrik

With time spent with your Aptus you will also learn to look at LCD even in full sun without a shade. I use it all the time.
It is a matter of getting your eyes use to do it.
Of course it is not your Canon screen but also it is not harder than judging exposer fro 645 polaroid and we learnt to manage.

Andre

[Dustbak]

I have done more work with flexcolor now.

I still find it annoying the files aren't supported in ACR. I know the 3FR files are necessary to be able to do software corrections (like DAC and HNCS) however since you don't get these when converting to DNG IMO there should be no objective of setting Flexcolor or the back to shooting DNG directly. In that case as an user you have the option. On most of my cameras I don't have the option of software corrections to begin with.

Having said this. I am also pleased conversion to DNG is quite quickly but you need lots of storage. You convert 80Mb files to 40Mb files, after which you could delete the FFF files.

Flexcolor itself is not a pretty application but it works. It is also not completely stable but it doesn't crash often fortunately.

I do get weird things like now & than the back acts up and I get green/magenta cast again together with weird ghostly shadows.

On a shooting day it happens once or twice that the back doesn't respond to Flexcolor. Jerking out the firewire and putting it back in solves this.

All in all, sofar. No faultless operation but nothing major either. File quality of the Hasselblad is excellent (as you should expect).

BTW. Let us know what you went for, A65s or H3D31 and why. I find it always interesting to know what drives the choices of other people.