no shadow detail

[mcculloched]

I'm using moab entrada bw 190 and an epson 3800.
There is plenty of shadow detail on my monitor but when I go to print I don't get very much at all.
The paper is custom profiled.

How can I bring out the shadow detail in my prints?

Thanks-
-Ed

[mcculloched]

My brightness is set way down and is profiled as well.

[abiggs]

Are you familar with printing on fine art matte papers? This is a common response when first printing on fine art papers.

[dgillilan]

I'm using moab entrada bw 190 and an epson 3800.
There is plenty of shadow detail on my monitor but when I go to print I don't get very much at all.
The paper is custom profiled.

How can I bring out the shadow detail in my prints?

Thanks-
-Ed
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Eric Chan posted a gray curve for B&W to use with the Epson 3800 printer and the Moab Entrada paper here:
[a href=\"http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/papers.html#mefan300bw]http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Ep...html#mefan300bw[/url]

He has directions posted on how to use those curves also, I recommend them.
I have used Eric's gray curve with a different paper from his selection, and I obtained excellent results with shadows and highlights in the same B&W image,
Debra

[mcculloched]

No I'm not familiar printing on fine art papers.

The bw was bright white and I will be printing with color.
Thanks-
-Ed

Are you familar with printing on fine art matte papers? This is a common response when first printing on fine art papers.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132310\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[abiggs]

Ed, I would say that the biggest differences between a traditional photographic paper (luster, gloss, semi-gloss) and a fine art paper will be a smaller color gamut, less contrast and perhaps shadow detail (blocked up shadows is a common description). I have to say that it took me a while to learn how to print on matte papers. You can achieve amazing results from these papers, but you need to approach them differently.

If you believe that you are having consistent issues in the shadows, you can always add a very slight curve in Photoshop to open them back up a bit.

How did you create your custom profile, or who did it for you?

[picnic]

Ed, I would say that the biggest differences between a traditional photographic paper (luster, gloss, semi-gloss) and a fine art paper will be a smaller color gamut, less contrast and perhaps shadow detail (blocked up shadows is a common description). I have to say that it took me a while to learn how to print on matte papers. You can achieve amazing results from these papers, but you need to approach them differently.

If you believe that you are having consistent issues in the shadows, you can always add a very slight curve in Photoshop to open them back up a bit.

How did you create your custom profile, or who did it for you?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132316\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm also wondering if you would benefit from buying the LL Camera to Print--you might esp. be helped by the section on softproofing.  Andy's suggestion is good too.  It is just 'different'.  

Diane

[abiggs]

I am not sure what you mean by 'different'. if he wants more shadow detail, and fine art papers inherently are more tricky that traditional papers, how else are you going to accomplish this? Editing profiles is not something many of us need or want to do. The only other option would be to just live with it, which also isn't a bad option. Fine Art papers are just another media with inherent personalities.

[mcculloched]

I would agree with you guys.  I never had a problem with luster and gloss papers.
The prints on the fine art are fantastic, just the lack of shadow detail is all.

My work is  inherantly dark and shadowy.  I'll try some levels and curves adjustments.
I've attached an example.

If anyone else has anything to add please do-
-Ed

[abiggs]

I would agree with you guys.  I never had a problem with luster and gloss papers.
The prints on the fine art are fantastic, just the lack of shadow detail is all.

My work is  inherantly dark and shadowy.  I'll try some levels and curves adjustments.
I've attached an example.

If anyone else has anything to add please do-
-Ed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132328\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ed, very nice work. Based on what I am seeing, these types of images might be tricky on fine art papers. I will be interested to see what your ultimate remedy is.

[picnic]

I am not sure what you mean by 'different'. if he wants more shadow detail, and fine art papers inherently are more tricky that traditional papers, how else are you going to accomplish this? Editing profiles is not something many of us need or want to do. The only other option would be to just live with it, which also isn't a bad option. Fine Art papers are just another media with inherent personalities.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132323\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sorry, bad quick post here.  I didn't mean YOUR suggestion was different but that printing on fine art papers is different.  One has to accomplish this in exactly the way you suggest.  This was the reason I suggested perhaps the Camera to Print video might be of help---particularly the softproofing one with pretty much exactly what you suggest--just used with softproofing by Jeff.

Teaches ME to post quickly without rereading it LOL.

Diane

[madmanchan]

Ed, for these sorts of images you may be better off using some of the newer f-type papers -- Moab has some in the Colorado Fiber line, and there are others from Crane, Hahnemuehle, and Innova, too. There are some versions of these papers that have a fairly low gloss (little sheen) and therefore come reasonably close to resembling a matte finish. You'll end up getting lots more shadow detail (and deeper blacks and a wider gamut in the shadows, another plus).

It is also possible the custom profile that you have for the Entrada is just not providing sufficient shadow detail. Depending on the software package used to build the profile, the number of patches in the target, and the software options chosen, there are cases in which shadows will be compressed. Do you happen to know which profile software was used to build your custom profile?

Have you tried the Perceptual rendering intent?

[mcculloched]

Thanks for the paper recommendations.  
The profile I'm using was made by inkjetart.com

I did some slight curve adjustments and the shadow detail came right out without sacrificing the midtones and highlights.  

Thanks for all of your help-
-Ed