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Author Topic: For all Sinarback Users  (Read 15543 times)

thsinar

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« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2007, 08:43:26 am »

hi Frank,

the speed improvement is about a factor 2, being conservative. On my ProBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo it is even closer to 2.5 faster.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Theirry,

5.5 gives a huge improvement in speed and stability over previous version.  I am only using it on a MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo [10.4.10] right now with a Sinarback 54H.  I would say that time to open files has been cut almost in half.  I don't test with a stopwatch but the program overall  seems snappier. 
I would highly recommend it to anyone who is hesitant. 
I have yet to load it on my desktop. When I do I will give you a report.

Best,

Frank Poole
www.frankpoole.com
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« Last Edit: August 13, 2007, 08:43:49 am by thsinar »
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2007, 11:46:18 am »

Dear Thierry,

I downloaded the CS 5.5 and I am impressed with the speed on my new MacBook Pro.

And I am disappointed with the new release: NO support of eMotion backs on Sinar-m cameras. I even cannot install the new Sinar-M firmware with my Eyelike on the camera and I cannot use the new line of Macro Lens Extensions Tubes AF (ordered). Full integration (bi-directional) only for the first generation backs (54M and 54H and earlier backs) or the new 75H.
I feel that the eMotion backs were orphaned by Sinar. Or Sinar want us, eMotion and sinar-m users, to own TWO backs (one fully integrated tethered solution and one "field" back). I think that this release is not for me. I will keep to use Brumbaer Tools.

I agree with Sam: the  Eyelike CapturePro works very well: once set,  the colors are dead on. And the library of Film Looks is a good starting point for experiments with the look of files. I just hope that this feature will be integrated in the eXposure software.

Yevgeny

 
Quote
hi Frank,

the speed improvement is about a factor 2, being conservative. On my ProBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo it is even closer to 2.5 faster.

Best regards,
Thierry
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thsinar

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« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2007, 06:22:39 pm »

Dear Sam,

let me comment as following to your questions:

1. It works, but it is not "recommended": the Eyelike software will sooner or later not be supported anymore, latest after the release of Exposure. Then, the Eyelike application does not support Intel Macs.

2. You can creat your own ICC profile in Captureshop, by using a profile making application.

3) This is not possible currently.

4) Yes, by using the Brumbaer tools

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thanks for helping me get it to function.

Can you comment on my other questions.

1) Will a 54LV work with Eyelike software (which I still find fastest)

2) How can you simply make subtle colour adjustments in Capture Shop ?

those colour adjustments may not be seeking accuracy but a pleasant 'tone'

3) How can you export a fast HTML contact sheet in Capture Shop?

4) without shooting tethered is it possible to calibrate using images of white and gregtag card

SMM
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Morgan_Moore

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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2007, 01:59:47 am »

I dont know who BETA TESTS your stuff  but thier Idea of work flow is way off from mine

2.(COLOUR ADJUSTMENTS) You can creat your own ICC profile in Captureshop, by using a profile making application.

I think we are talking a cross purposes.

I am talking about making adjustments using the best colour tool in the world -

the mark 1 human eyeball

What I mean is it is very hard (using C55) to just to look at an image and just say - 'this man looks a bit pink' and dial it out by eye

(maybe he IS a bit pink!)

This can be done in C5.5 using  the colour wheel but it is way too small and sensitive -not controllable compared to the RGB seperate curves in the Eyelike software (or the colour balance sliders in Kodak photodesk which was released in 1064 BC)

IMO colour balance is subjective - say a portrait of a person under a tree - it is subjective whether you want to dial out the green cast or not - probably the answer is 'a bit'

--

With the Eye software I can now, for some simple jobs (if I have cleaned my sensor), deliver them without the files even touching photoshop - I dont think this will be possible with C55


3) (HTML EXPORT)  This is not possible currently.

Well that saves heaps of computer time for me and my clients - its ommission would appear to be another 'schoolboy error'

Last week I had shot a job and the weather went wrong, an hour before dealine the weather came right and I reshot the pic (of a building local to me)

I was then able to send a web contact sheet to the client in about 2 minutes for them to pick one image from - deadline met

As far as I know this is a pretty normal and fast workflow which is not simply supported

-Shoot
-Apply basic correction to all images
-Export HTML to client
-Client selects
-process out only required files
-tinker with PS
-deliver



----

In terms of the speed of the app - I know I use a crummy computer (being a prehistoric two years old) - but the speed has previously been very acceptable to me

CS55 is not doing more than the eye software but is way slower ??

I am talking about the speed of adjusting images at preview level before 'processing out'

The speed of 'processing out' is less relevant to me becuase you can drink tea or post bunkum on Ludicrous Landscape while you are waiting for that to happen

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

mattlap2

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« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2007, 02:22:33 am »

Quote
3) (HTML EXPORT)  This is not possible currently.

Well that saves heaps of computer time for me and my clients - its ommission would appear to be another 'schoolboy error'

Last week I had shot a job and the weather went wrong, an hour before dealine the weather came right and I reshot the pic (of a building local to me)

I was then able to send a web contact sheet to the client in about 2 minutes for them to pick one image from - deadline met

Morgan,

I know that it is not the same as an HTML contact sheet, but you can take the contact sheet and print it to PDF.   It does send out a relatively nice product for quick proofing.

Matt LaPointe
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thsinar

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« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2007, 02:44:24 am »

Dear Sam,

I think you have to get used to CS a bit and use it longer: it seems to me that you are missing here a few features. Unfortunately I cannot explain them all here, and that's why there is a "Help" file delivered with CS (User Manual).

The colour can certainly not be adjusted the way you are looking to have it, but as far as the speed of adjustements in CS is concerned, this is done by selecting the images in the contact sheet, apply the seetings you wish (White balance, contrast, brightness, exposure comp., profiles, working space, etc, etc .... ---> ALL the possible settings): having selected that, the speed of corrections is almost INSTANT and batched automatically in your contact sheet (contact sheet based workflow). Try it out.

It is always "difficult" to change from one application to another, since there are built-up differently, with different features. But I think you are missing out some very useful tools in CS: again, make use of the "Help" which will explain it in details.

hanks and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
With the Eye software I can now, for some simple jobs (if I have cleaned my sensor), deliver them without the files even touching photoshop - I dont think this will be possible with C55
3) (HTML EXPORT)  This is not possible currently.

Well that saves heaps of computer time for me and my clients - its ommission would appear to be another 'schoolboy error'

Last week I had shot a job and the weather went wrong, an hour before dealine the weather came right and I reshot the pic (of a building local to me)

In terms of the speed of the app - I know I use a crummy computer (being a prehistoric two years old) - but the speed has previously been very acceptable to me

CS55 is not doing more than the eye software but is way slower ??

I am talking about the speed of adjusting images at preview level before 'processing out'

The speed of 'processing out' is less relevant to me becuase you can drink tea or post bunkum on Ludicrous Landscape while you are waiting for that to happen

S
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Morgan_Moore

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« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2007, 02:45:55 am »

Quote
Morgan,

I know that it is not the same as an HTML contact sheet, but you can take the contact sheet and print it to PDF.   It does send out a relatively nice product for quick proofing.

Matt LaPointe
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133124\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I had been thinking about a screen grab or simlar..

how do you do it ?

I am just exporting 30 images as jpg low in preview quality - I started at 0742 and will report back once the process is complete

S
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 02:46:37 am by Morgan_Moore »
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

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« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2007, 03:39:36 am »

Quote
Dear Sam,

I think you have to get used to CS a bit and use it longer: it seems to me that you are missing here a few features. Unfortunately I cannot explain them all here, and that's why there is a "Help" file delivered with CS (User Manual).

The colour can certainly not be adjusted the way you are looking to have it, but as far as the speed of adjustements in CS is concerned, this is done by selecting the images in the contact sheet, apply the seetings you wish (White balance, contrast, brightness, exposure comp., profiles, working space, etc, etc .... ---> ALL the possible settings): having selected that, the speed of corrections is almost INSTANT and batched automatically in your contact sheet (contact sheet based workflow). Try it out.

It is always "difficult" to change from one application to another, since there are built-up differently, with different features. But I think you are missing out some very useful tools in CS: again, make use of the "Help" which will explain it in details.

hanks and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133128\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well it took 20 mins to export 20 images to jpg - to make an HTML contact sheet will take anonther 5 in PhotoMechanic

TH

I understand fully about batch importing/exporting of settings

(it would of course be fastest to right click copy settings and then paste settings or patse special settings - like the wonderful kodak photodesk)

The speed that matters to me is editing one image - an edit for example of the curves takes maybe half a second to translate to my screen view even when working with the contat sheet enlarged not in an 'open' image

Half a second may not sound long but this has the effect of your mouse being half a second behind your actions- which is actually very slow

I understand that my laptop is not the fastest

but it can happily work a 22mp 16bit file in PS (up to three layers)

We in the field have a limited budget for upgrades but more importantly..

In terms of design - I know you shouldnt need to design for steam age kit - but there is an argument for making it as fast an memory non intensive as possible

This argument revolves around field shooters desires to work towards tiny laptops or PDAs or even Iphones for portable tethered shooting

There is currenty a 'tiny lpatop' thread going and also comments about avoiding LR because it its slow compared to C1

I think a 'fast mode' is needed say a 600pxl preview view *

Of course if there was PC software I could use my monster office desktops !

----

In terms of the colour adjustment unless I am missing something the interface (the colour wheel) is a great one in theory

But it is too small and controlled only by movement of the mouse

The scaleable (single chanel)  curve box is fantastic in C55

In PS for example you can control the curves either using the mouse OR by typing input and output values

You should be able to control thees colours either senitivly or numerically

This user interface seems to strangle the sensitive adjustments theoretically available from both your wonderful cameras and fundamentally excellent image processor

SMM

*kodak implemented a 'fast mode' with a photodesk upgrade - with made the software from 'unusable' to 'great'
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 03:58:43 am by Morgan_Moore »
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

thsinar

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« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2007, 03:56:22 am »

Sam,

- It is possible to save settings, then copy/paste!, Whatever settings you want, a single one or a couple of setttings together, or all possible settings.

- Exposure will exist for PC version, which should make you happy, with your office PC's

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
TH

(it would of course be fastest to right click copy settings and then paste settings or patse special settings - like the wonderful kodak photodesk)


I understand that my laptop is not the fastest


Of course if there was PC software I could use my monster office desktops !

----

 

SMM
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2007, 03:43:26 am by thsinar »
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Morgan_Moore

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« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2007, 04:37:02 am »

Quote
Sam,

- It is possible to save settings, then copy/paste!, Whatever settings you want, a singe one or a couple of setttings together, or al possibe settings.

- Exposure will exist for PC version, which should make you happy, with your office PC's

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133135\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

yes

> process copy settings

then unless I am wrong

each individual setting can be pasted

but this require lots of mouse if you want alll of the setting expept maybe exposure compensation

Its just mouse time.

Im sure I'll get used to the GUI - fundamentally the features are there

So lets go quiet on that.

I am still sure that sensitive colour adjustment is a feature that is missing ??

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

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« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2007, 09:44:26 am »

Quote
yes

> process copy settings

then unless I am wrong

each individual setting can be pasted

but this require lots of mouse if you want alll of the setting expept maybe exposure compensation

Its just mouse time.

S
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Sam:

All you need do is make whatever changes you want to a selected image, go to the top arrow button - just below and to the right of the Export tab - pull down that button/menu, select copy, then select all images you want to apply those settings to, pull down the button/menu and select paste. Couldn't be easier, except maybe with some shortcut key commands. This essentially is how you perform multiple image adjustments on a batch in a single operation.

Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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Morgan_Moore

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« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2007, 10:03:24 am »

Quote
Sam:

All you need do is make whatever changes you want to a selected image, go to the top arrow button - just below and to the right of the Export tab - pull down that button/menu, select copy, then select all images you want to apply those settings to, pull down the button/menu and select paste. Couldn't be easier, except maybe with some shortcut key commands. This essentially is how you perform multiple image adjustments on a batch in a single operation.

Steve Hendrix
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Yes I got that !

Still slightly unclear how to paste only a few of the settings not all of them

Seems you have to individually paste that setting having copied the whole lot

Like I said I will probably get quicker at this software - every new software is a learning experience

Still I feel the control over colour is too fiddly to make adjustments to please the eye (as opposed to clicking or pasting a grey balance)

Typically I will start with a neutral image which I then want to warm

I can do this in ACR with thetemp slider and calibration sliders or in Eyelike with the seperate colour curves (my favorite)

This is possible with the colour wheel in C55 but incredibly hard to control with a mouse over just a few pixels

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

mattlap2

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« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2007, 12:13:27 pm »

Quote
I had been thinking about a screen grab or simlar..

how do you do it ?

I am just exporting 30 images as jpg low in preview quality - I started at 0742 and will report back once the process is complete

S
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From the contact sheet ...  just choose print!    And then in the print window click PDF and choose Save to PDF.    It works surprisingly well .....

Matt
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thsinar

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« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2007, 07:41:34 pm »

No Sam, no need to copy each setting: you can copy all as you want them, simply by using the top right corner pulldown menu ("Copy Settings"), and then "Paste Settings" to all the selected iamges in CS. You can the same way also "Save Settings", for further use.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
yes

> process copy settings

then unless I am wrong

each individual setting can be pasted

but this require lots of mouse if you want alll of the setting expept maybe exposure compensation

Its just mouse time.

Im sure I'll get used to the GUI - fundamentally the features are there

So lets go quiet on that.

I am still sure that sensitive colour adjustment is a feature that is missing ??

S
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Morgan_Moore

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« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2007, 12:56:59 am »

Quote
No Sam, no need to copy each setting[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133313\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I dont want to sound rude but everyone is chipping in on how to copy the setting across images - I am happy ish with that - it is not my question - my question is..

What about subtle adjustments to colour ???

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

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« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2007, 02:46:53 am »

I understand what you mean. I find the wheel OK for rough colour adjustments, but if I want to repeat an adjustment based on familiarity rather than saving settings, its not easy. I tend to do my subtle adjustments in photoshop.  I suppose you could make a whole bunch of preset colour adjustments and save them, but it is a work around as I assume the idea of the colour circle is to make intuitive changes quickly. Maybe if it was a lot bigger and had grid squares overlaid you could get more exact results.
David

Quote
What about subtle adjustments to colour ???
S
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thsinar

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« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2007, 03:47:07 am »

Sam,

Different (subttle) colour adjustments are not possible the way you describe it.

Best regards,
Thierry


Quote
I dont want to sound rude but everyone is chipping in on how to copy the setting across images - I am happy ish with that - it is not my question - my question is..

What about subtle adjustments to colour ???

S
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Morgan_Moore

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« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2007, 06:04:58 am »

Quote
Maybe if it was a lot bigger and had grid squares overlaid you could get more exact results.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133369\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Or had some kind of numeric input in the way that PS curves do

To be fair part of the amount of adjustments I have become used to making are drivien by my E22s terrible 'start point'

hopefully new gen backs (get mine next week) have a great start point

I think this is one of the recent improvements on backs both phase P30 V 25 and sinar (dont know the others)

S
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« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2007, 06:59:39 am »

Quote
Or had some kind of numeric input in the way that PS curves do

To be fair part of the amount of adjustments I have become used to making are drivien by my E22s terrible 'start point'

hopefully new gen backs (get mine next week) have a great start point

I think this is one of the recent improvements on backs both phase P30 V 25 and sinar (dont know the others)

S
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the "start" point is not determined by the backs, its the interpretation of the raw data which is done in the konverter which makes that. so start with a good "def" setting and your "start" point might be ok.
uninterpretated raw data in any case is not looking so great on a monitor without gradation curves applied. but as i said before use b rumbaer tools and lightroom or acr3 and all the problems you suffer from are past.


--------------------
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« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2007, 09:37:02 am »

Thierry, Rainer, Foto-Z, et. al.,

What size is the DNG from Brumbaer compared to the .sti RAW file?  Does the DNG retain the adjustments made (grey balance, curve, saturation, etc.). Is the DNG still usable within CaptureShop?  

Thank you in advance,
Billy
« Last Edit: August 15, 2007, 09:55:53 am by BJNY »
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