Dark Skies and DMax

[SteveZ]

I need some advise on printing images with dark skies and/or skies that have a distinct transition gradient from dark to lighter tones

Unlike most of you, I’m relatively new to digital b&W printing
and, as such, technically challenged when it comes to measuring dmax, creating profiles, etc.

I’m using a 3800 with k3 inks with matte papers that include VFA, HPR and MPR. For b&w I normally use the the ABW driver but even when using the RGB driver/media profiles the results invariably are the same.

I’ve also made test prints with all of the above papers with similar outcomes: solid black skies with no detail.

Without getting too technical,
can anybody shed some light?

[rdonson]

Are you using custom profiles or ones supplied by manufacturers?  Are you softproofing?

[madmanchan]

I’m using a 3800 with k3 inks with matte papers that include VFA, HPR and MPR. For b&w I normally use the the ABW driver but even when using the RGB driver/media profiles the results invariably are the same.

I’ve also made test prints with all of the above papers with similar outcomes: solid black skies with no detail.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Some suggestions ...

First, and I hope you don't take the following suggestion as an insult ...  ... but just as a sanity check, be sure that you are printing on the correct side of the paper. You can do the "wet finger" test -- the sticky side is the print side.

Next, make sure your Media Type settings in the driver are appropriate. For VFA and HPR, it should be Velvet Fine Art.

When printing using the ABW driver, try choosing Dark from the Tone menu instead of the default Darker. Also, is your image gamma 2.2-encoded (e.g., in Adobe RGB or Gray Gamma 2.2) as opposed to gamma 1.8 (e.g., ProPhoto RGB, Gray Gamma 1.? Here's a suggested ABW workflow which usually preserves shadow detail very well:

[a href=\"http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/printworkflow.html#abw_no_gray_curve]http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Ep...w_no_gray_curve[/url]

Also, when are you evaluating the images? Prints on matte paper tend to come out pretty dark and even muddy looking at the beginning, but then the tones separate and become more distinct as the ink dries. I advise waiting at least 12 to 24 hours for matte prints, esp. when there is heavy ink coverage, before serious evaluation.

For RGB printing, try the Perceptual intent if you haven't already. With some profiles this helps to bring out shadow detail.

[Kirk Gittings]

First,
find a greyscale file online, download it and print it to see what really is happening in your shadows. Anyone know where one is?

[SteveZ]

Are you using custom profiles or ones supplied by manufacturers?  Are you softproofing?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131780\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Using mfg profiles when printing with RGB driver, Ron.

[SteveZ]

Some suggestions ...

First, and I hope you don't take the following suggestion as an insult ...  ... but just as a sanity check, be sure that you are printing on the correct side of the paper. You can do the "wet finger" test -- the sticky side is the print side.

Next, make sure your Media Type settings in the driver are appropriate. For VFA and HPR, it should be Velvet Fine Art.

When printing using the ABW driver, try choosing Dark from the Tone menu instead of the default Darker. Also, is your image gamma 2.2-encoded (e.g., in Adobe RGB or Gray Gamma 2.2) as opposed to gamma 1.8 (e.g., ProPhoto RGB, Gray Gamma 1.? Here's a suggested ABW workflow which usually preserves shadow detail very well:

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Ep...w_no_gray_curve

Also, when are you evaluating the images? Prints on matte paper tend to come out pretty dark and even muddy looking at the beginning, but then the tones separate and become more distinct as the ink dries. I advise waiting at least 12 to 24 hours for matte prints, esp. when there is heavy ink coverage, before serious evaluation.

For RGB printing, try the Perceptual intent if you haven't already. With some profiles this helps to bring out shadow detail.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131782\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, Eric, yes, I always use the "wet finger" test. These papers are too expensive to do otherwise.  
When printing with the ABW driver, I've been using some of your "paper curves" which I downloaded from you website, I find the one for VFA works very well. I only wish you'd create more because I find them so helpful.

With regards to "perceptual intent", I remember reading somewhere for B&W not to click "black point compression" but I do anyways. I can't tell the difference.

[KeithR]

First,
find a greyscale file online, download it and print it to see what really is happening in your shadows. Anyone know where one is?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You could try these from Keith Cooper's site:

[a href=\"http://northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/test_images.html]http://northlight-images.co.uk/article_pag...est_images.html[/url]

Many different test images(color and B&W) and info about them.

[rdonson]

First,
find a greyscale file online, download it and print it to see what really is happening in your shadows. Anyone know where one is?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[a href=\"http://www.outbackprint.com/printinginsights/pi048/essay.html]Here[/url] is a printer test file from Uwe Steinmueller.  It is both color and b&w.  You could probably edit out the color portions if you'd like.

Link to download the 40MB file at the bottom of the page.