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Author Topic: View camera and digi back  (Read 4771 times)

Andrew W

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View camera and digi back
« on: August 05, 2007, 02:35:21 am »

Since the "Counting Ants" article from Michael, I have not heard a lot of news regarding the use of MF digi backs with view cameras. I admit, I don' frequent these forums like I should and have probably missed some discussion.

Is Michael still using this setup. Anyone else out there shooting large format with single shot MFDB? I hope to be able to use this setup in the future and always appreciate any available news/feedback.

Thanks,
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Gary Ferguson

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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2007, 08:09:17 am »

I'm still using a P25 with a Linhof M679cs, soon to be upgraded to a P45+. A digital back on a technical camera is a powerful combination for certain specialised applications like high quality architectural work, but it brings with it so many downsides that you need to be absolutely sure it's the right solution for your photograph, or else it will be an expensive and frustrating mistake.

Like 4x5 it's slow and cumbersome, but unlike 4x5 you're not rewarded with a unique viewfinder experience or gold standard quality. You're squinting at a 37mm x 49mm image, trying to make precise camera adjustments that will be later scrutinised at much higher enlargements. Image quality is no better (and with the wrong lenses or sloppy technique significantly worse) than you'll get from using the same back on a medium format SLR. And rather than slipping a cheap film holder into the camera, you're gingerly attaching, and then detaching, a very expensive and delicate digital back before each exposure. So check your insurance, scrutinise the weather forecast, and brush up on your sensor cleaning techniques!

Many photographers still carry the conclusions of the film era, where large format automatically equalled highest possible image quality. With digital that equation no longer holds true. Large format digital is really just about extensive camera movements (for moderate camera movements you'd be better off with a Hasselblad Flexbody, an Alpa, Canon T&S lenses, or one of the other more portable solutions), if this is what you need then it's as unbeatable and satisfying as large format has always been. But if you don't need extensive movements then it's an expensive white elephant.
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michael

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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2007, 08:48:15 am »

I purchased the Linhof and lenses for an architectural commission. I still have it, and use it from time to time, but nowhere near as much as the Hasselblad. I agree with everything Gary has said.

With the architectural job now passed I expect to sell the Linhof and lens kit soon. Not that it isn't a great outfit, just that my current needs are better met with the P45+ on the H2.

If anyone is interested I'll make a sweet deal on my P45, Linhof 679CS and and four Rodenstock digital lenses, as described in my review and Counting Ants. I'll also include a one day workshop on its use and airfare from anywhere in North America to Toronto.

(Sorry to hijack this thread, but it seemed as good a place as any to make this offer. Anyone interested should PM or email me).

Michael
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David WM

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« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2007, 09:46:23 am »

Hi Andrew
What sort of use do you have in mind? I use a Cambo Ultima23 with an eMotion22 back mainly for studio work. I have the Schneider apo digitarMacro 120. It is a great combination for controlling plane of focus, which can be tiny in close-up work. The results are really crisp. I prefer it to the 120 Macro on the H1, which I tend to stop down a lot to achieve the focus and lose the nice selective focus effects. Of course its slower to use than the H1, but that is sometimes not significant as the overall set-up time is the major time factor.
 I also have the 80mm apo digitar but haven't got much use out of it yet. I tried to use it last week on location for a shot of a swmming pool from a nearby rooftop,which I was planning to stitch,  but found that even with 80mm I'd needed to have bag bellows to get the movements I wanted and to hold focus over the surface of the pool, so I just used the H1 instead.
For Architectural work I am using the H1 and when I upgrade for movements (which I'm keen to do)  I think rather than using the Ultima I will be looking to get a Cambo Wide or an Alpa XY as for that sort of work you mainly need rise & fall, not tilts & swings, and you pay a big weight premium for the swings & tilts.

David
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BobDavid

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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2007, 08:52:18 pm »

Hi David,

How do you like the Ultima 23? I almost purchased one, but instead went with a less expensive solution, a used 4X5 Horseman LE. The Horseman rise/falls and shifts 3 centimeters in either direction. It works well with a bag bellows and a Rodenstock Digital 70mm lens. The lens has an awesome image circle of over 100mm.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 08:57:09 pm by BobDavid »
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David WM

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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2007, 02:24:02 am »

Hi Bob
I like the Ultima. My previous film camera was a Toyo 45G, so having the standards fully gear operated pivoting from the base around a central axis is a great improvement. I am actually using a 4x5 rear standard as I got the 4x5 conversion kit with the camera and I happened to find a 4x5 sliding back second hand. This isn't much of an issue size wise as most of the size is in the gearing etc under the standards. I just need to see if I can get a 23 - 45 bag bellows, or alternatively if there is someone out there who'd like to swap a 4x5 sliding back (with rear standard, & normal 23-45 bellows) for a 23 sliding back, it could be a good arangement for someone wanting to shoot film.  Once I've got bag bellows I would like to try it with a wide digital lens like a 35 or 28 to see how user friendly it is with that sort of focal length. They are expensive lenses, and from what I gather you can't adapt the normal view camera lens to the Cambo Wide or the Alpa.

David

Quote
Hi David,
How do you like the Ultima 23?
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Andrew W

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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2007, 04:14:03 am »

Quote
Hi Andrew
What sort of use do you have in mind? I use a Cambo Ultima23 with an eMotion22 back mainly for studio work. I have the Schneider apo digitarMacro 120. It is a great combination for controlling plane of focus, which can be tiny in close-up work. The results are really crisp. I prefer it to the 120 Macro on the H1, which I tend to stop down a lot to achieve the focus and lose the nice selective focus effects. Of course its slower to use than the H1, but that is sometimes not significant as the overall set-up time is the major time factor.
 I also have the 80mm apo digitar but haven't got much use out of it yet. I tried to use it last week on location for a shot of a swmming pool from a nearby rooftop,which I was planning to stitch,  but found that even with 80mm I'd needed to have bag bellows to get the movements I wanted and to hold focus over the surface of the pool, so I just used the H1 instead.
For Architectural work I am using the H1 and when I upgrade for movements (which I'm keen to do)  I think rather than using the Ultima I will be looking to get a Cambo Wide or an Alpa XY as for that sort of work you mainly need rise & fall, not tilts & swings, and you pay a big weight premium for the swings & tilts.

David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131594\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

David:

I shoot landscape and recently re-read "counting ants" and recalled Michaels conclusion that the large format systems produced higher quality images. I shoot with 35 mm digital slr. When I think about MFDBs the medium format vs view camera always surfaces in my mind. Since architecture is not my strong point, I will take Gary and Michaels advice to heart. Thanks for the replies.

Andrew
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bjornaagedk

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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2007, 04:20:49 am »

I use Cambo Ultima 23 with Schneider Apo-Digitar 120 Macro and Leaf Aptus 75.
This combination works perfect for me in studio, shooting hundreds of table top shots every month.

I also agree in everything Gary said, except that I find image quality with the cambo/schneider better than if I shoot with my Hasselblad H gear, at least for my special purpose.

I use a little tilt and swing to control sharpness and with the leaf back I have no needs for color cast corrections and also do not have to wake up the back before every shot.

In regards to picture quality, the schneider 120mm macro gives me superb results, but only when shooting at f.11 - f. 11,5, which I always do. You can immediately see the difference if you get outside this.

So - for specialized studio work, I don't think you will get a better equipment. But for location work, it may be too heavy and slow to work with.
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