Museo MAX for B&W Printing

[SteveZ]

Lately, I've been experimenting with different fine art papers and been
wanting to try Museo Max. I don't read much about this paper on this
forum, although Crane raves about how wonderful it is for black&white
printing.

Does anyone use this paper, and if so, can you tell me about it?
I've used Portfolio Rag and Silver Rag.

How does MAX compare to these Crane papers?

[Kirk Gittings]

The Dmax of MM is among the very highest of the mat papers, about the same as Velvet Fine Art (the highest Dmax available). The base is slightly warmer, but the whitest you can get a paper base without the evil optical brighteners making this paper more archival as a result. This is a fairly toothy paper, not as much as VFA, but not smooth by any means. It is my favourite mat paper and I have printed my last few shows at galleries and museums on it.

[Brian Gilkes]

Crane Silver rag is a lustre paper, so not in the same catagory as Portfolio Rag (CPR) and Max(CMx).
Both matte papers are on non OBA cotton bases, so a little off white. CPR is  a little whiter. ItsD Max is a tad greater. This may be a more recent coating , as CPR is the more recent paper, but it couldd be just that CPR is a little smoother. All other things being equal the smoother the paper the greater the gamut and density  range. In practice no-one notices any difference in print quality  between these 2 papers. The reason for choosing one over the other is personal taste in paper surfaces. CMx has a slightly more textured surface, which is a bit more "random". The texture on CPR runs in the direction of the grain. The surface of CMx is softer than CPR but nowhere near the softness of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag (HPR). HPR has optical brighteners (OBAs), but these don't work under tungsten light.
In summary CMx and CPR are both excellent papers. Choice between them and other leading papers such as HPR, is really just personal. Behing glass and with gallery lighting, it's almost impossible to pick the difference.
HTH
Brian
PS If you are comparing paper prices on rolls, Crane papers are in 15m lengths, and a lot of other art papers in 12m lengths., so it can pay to calculate price per square meter. www.pharoseditions.com.au

[SteveZ]

Lately, I've been experimenting with different fine art papers and been
wanting to try Museo Max. I don't read much about this paper on this
forum, although Crane raves about how wonderful it is for black&white
printing.

Does anyone use this paper, and if so, can you tell me about it?
I've used Portfolio Rag and Silver Rag.

How does MAX compare to these Crane papers?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131382\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[SteveZ]

The Dmax of MM is among the very highest of the mat papers, about the same as Velvet Fine Art (the highest Dmax available). The base is slightly warmer, but the whitest you can get a paper base without the evil optical brighteners making this paper more archival as a result. This is a fairly toothy paper, not as much as VFA, but not smooth by any means. It is my favourite mat paper and I have printed my last few shows at galleries and museums on it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131384\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, Kirk, this helps!

[SteveZ]

Thanks, Brian, this helps, but unfortunately, I have a 3800 which takes strictly sheet paper.

Crane Silver rag is a lustre paper, so not in the same catagory as Portfolio Rag (CPR) and Max(CMx).
Both matte papers are on non OBA cotton bases, so a little off white. CPR is  a little whiter. ItsD Max is a tad greater. This may be a more recent coating , as CPR is the more recent paper, but it couldd be just that CPR is a little smoother. All other things being equal the smoother the paper the greater the gamut and density  range. In practice no-one notices any difference in print quality  between these 2 papers. The reason for choosing one over the other is personal taste in paper surfaces. CMx has a slightly more textured surface, which is a bit more "random". The texture on CPR runs in the direction of the grain. The surface of CMx is softer than CPR but nowhere near the softness of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag (HPR). HPR has optical brighteners (OBAs), but these don't work under tungsten light.
In summary CMx and CPR are both excellent papers. Choice between them and other leading papers such as HPR, is really just personal. Behing glass and with gallery lighting, it's almost impossible to pick the difference.
HTH
Brian
PS If you are comparing paper prices on rolls, Crane papers are in 15m lengths, and a lot of other art papers in 12m lengths., so it can pay to calculate price per square meter. www.pharoseditions.com.au
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131390\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Nick Rains]

Thanks, Brian, this helps, but unfortunately, I have a 3800 which takes strictly sheet paper.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Me too, but I trim sheets off a 17inch roll, flatten and use the manual single sheet feed which works much better than the multi sheet feeder. I can happily print on 34x17" sheets this way.

I actually have an old roll feed from a dead 4000 - makes a good roll paper holder.

[SteveZ]

Me too, but I trim sheets off a 17inch roll, flatten and use the manual single sheet feed which works much better than the multi sheet feeder. I can happily print on 34x17" sheets this way.

I actually have an old roll feed from a dead 4000 - makes a good roll paper holder.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131432\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Interesting, Nick, I should try that too.
Thanks for the tip.

[madmanchan]

The Dmax of MM is among the very highest of the mat papers, about the same as Velvet Fine Art (the highest Dmax available).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131384\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That has not been my experience, at least with the 3800, the K3 inks, and the ABW driver to print B&W images.

The d-max of MM tops out at about 1.67 whereas with VFA it's about 1.77, a very noticeable and visible difference. I have also found MM to be prone to overinking, but this is overcome by setting the Media Type to Watercolor Paper Radiant White (despite Crane's suggestions, which lead to a lower d-max).

[SteveZ]

That has not been my experience, at least with the 3800, the K3 inks, and the ABW driver to print B&W images.

The d-max of MM tops out at about 1.67 whereas with VFA it's about 1.77, a very noticeable and visible difference. I have also found MM to be prone to overinking, but this is overcome by setting the Media Type to Watercolor Paper Radiant White (despite Crane's suggestions, which lead to a lower d-max).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131504\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, Eric, I also use the 3800 with the ABW driver, for some papers I need to use the "curves" you provided on your website. For Museo Max I would use the media profile since your curves for this paper are not available.

[Brian Gilkes]

I get about the same DMax as Eric. I have had no problem with overinking with a custom profile  and I use the AMP driver. The Crane profiles are not good. The paper does hold quite a bit of ink and takes a while to dry in cold weather. As it does the shadow details reveal themselves. Although i like the surface appearance of Max, Portfolio Rag may hold crisper details, probably due to a harder , smoother surface and newer coatings.
I haven't used any Epson papers for years , so am not up to scratch with them. Is Velvet Fine Art the old Somerset Velvet for Epson, which I believe came out of St Cuthbert's Mill in England?
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au

[madmanchan]

Hi Brian, my impression is that Velvet Fine Art is Somerset but with a different coating. When using K3 on regular Somerset, the d-max is not nearly as high as with Velvet. Not sure why.

[Kirk Gittings]

Eric, that is exactly right. Epson uses a proprietary coating on VFA on the same Sommerset paper stock. It gives a radically different result.