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Author Topic: Mamiya AFD II lenses and PhaseOne P45  (Read 14177 times)

mcrepsej

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Mamiya AFD II lenses and PhaseOne P45
« on: July 24, 2007, 02:46:27 pm »

Is there anyone who use Mamiya 645 AFD II with a PhaseOne P45/P45+ who would like to give me their experience about the 645 lenses.

Which are god and which are bad.

Is the new D 28mm and D 75-150 mm as god as the price is high?
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mcfoto

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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2007, 08:59:22 pm »

Hi
From what I have seen @ L&P ( Mamiya dealer for Australia ) the 28 mm is a very impressive lens both in quality & build. As far as the cost goes Mamiya has been working on this lens for a few years. They were going to bring out a 26mm about 4 years ago  but this lead to the 28 mm. There are only 2 of these lenses on the market. The Hasselblad 28 a true 28 digital lens that will not work with film. This lens will only work with the H3D body & there digital back. I have heard that hasselblad users are very happy with this lens. Back to the Mamiya 28mm this lens will work with all the digital backs out there & this is not an easy lens to make. If you own a Mamiya system you can still pick up many of the other AF lenses on ebay for less money than you would pay for a Canon EF L series lens. For what you save on these lenses ( 35, 45, 55, 80, 120, 150, 200, 300, 55-110. 105-210 all available on ebay in excellent condition ) I don't think $5000.00 USD is a fortune. If you were using the H1 system your total lens kit would be a lot more expensive. In the end you have to test this lens yourself. I am looking at buying the 75-150 in the future even though it is $3000.00 USD. I have saved money because I bought the 45, 150 & 55-110 on ebay for a total of $1750.00 USD. My favorites are the 45, 80 120, 150 & 55-100 ( use the most ).

Thanks Denis
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Steve_Townsend

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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2007, 01:45:28 am »

Hi

I am using the Mamiya with a P45 (waiting for my + to arrive).  I'll second the above comments with the exception of the 45mm lens which in my opinion exhibits too much barrel distortion.  It will be very good if next version of C1 software introduces correction for this distortion as indeed Hasselblad do for their lenses.  It really is not difficult to do and it will be a gross oversight on the part of Phase One if it is not included.

All my lenses are new with the exception of the 120mm macro lens which is really impressive and purchase on ebay for 200GBP!!  So there are some bargains about.

I have a 28mm lens on order which is due very soon so I cannot comment on that extremely expensive lens just now!!

If you don't need the flash sync you will not be disappointed with the Mamiya 645AFD11 over the Hasselblad.

Lester is the guy to comment on this one.  He has 'all' the lens, current and old and a P45.

Steve
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Mort54

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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2007, 10:58:08 am »

I have the P45 and the 35, 80, 55-110, 150, and 300mm AF lenses. They are all competent lenses, tho I wouldn't say any of them are spectacular. Build quality varies. The 150 feels very cheap. The 55-110 and 300 feel rock solid. The 35 and 80 are in between.

I've heard many people disparage the 35mm resolution, but from reviewing my images, I'd say it's the sharpest of my lenses, with good contrast as well. Maybe I got a good copy. The 55-110 does surprisingly well for a zoom, and I have no qualms using it. I haven't used the 80mm enough to form an opinion on it, mostly because the 55-110 is in my bag.

The lens you most often hear people rave about is the 120 macro. Unfortunately, I don't have it so I can't comment.

Regarding the 28 and 75-150, it's good to see that new lenses are still being developed for the Mamiya. Hardly anyone has had access to them yet, so it's impossible to form a realistic view of their qualities and flaws. An earlier poster suggested the 75-150 costs $3000 USD, but the only cost I've been able to find online is $3995 USD. That seems mighty expensive for a 75-150/4.5.

Perhaps equally important as lens quality is the 645's autofocus accuracy. I'm getting more accurate results with autofocus than with manual focus, but having said that, I'm not convinced that the 645 autofocus system always hits the optimal focus point. I have noticed that if I repeatedly focus on an object that should be at infinity on the lens, I get a little variability in where the focus actually ends up. Sometimes it's right in the middle of the infinity symbol, sometimes it's on the left edge of the symbol, and sometimes the right edge of the symbol. Sometimes that difference in focus point can be seen in an image. I assume there's equal variability at other focus distances, tho I haven't specifically done testing to confirm that.

My gut feeling is that the P45 outresolves the Mamiya lenses, tho as I've said, I don't have the 120, so that may be the exception. I can't prove this, it's just my gut feeling. It's also my gut feeling that the 645 autofocus system sometimes lets the lenses down, by not hitting the optimum focus point. I have a little information to back up this second statement, but that information is still limited, so I wouldn't take it as proven by any means.
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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2007, 11:26:25 am »

I have been using the 28 mm on a ZD for a few weeks, but have unfortunately not had as much time as I would have liked to test it in ideal conditions.

As of today, I feel that:

BUILD

- the lens is much larger than the 35mm,
- it is very well built and feels solid,
- the lens can be stopped down to f32,
- it is impossible to use front filter because of the shape of the front element, but an adapter is provided to adapt filters at the rear of the lens. Not an options for PL obvisouly, which is annoying for some situations,
- I am a bit concerned by how easily the huge front element could potentially be scrached, although this hasn't happened so far,
- the AF seems accurate, but most of my images were manual focused,

IMAGE QUALITY

- the lens is very sharp in the center, out to about 90% or 95% of the coverage. The very corners are a bit weak even stopped down to f14. Probably not worse than the 35 mm at the same location in the frame though,
- the distorsion is very well controlled, clearly better than with the 35 mm,
- I feel that the chromatic aberation is well controlled but haven't really checked in minute details frankly speaking,
- I have not noticed any difference in terms of colors compared to my other Mamiya lenses. Contrast seems to be excellent as well.

THINGS I DON'T KNOW YET

- flare behaviour,
- resistance to rain,...

FIRST IMPRESSION

A great addition to the Mamiya lens line up with impressive creative potential.

Regards,
Bernard

MichaelEzra

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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2007, 01:43:31 pm »

I am trying to decide between 45mm and 55mm 645 AF Mamiya lenses. Can anybody comment on any differences in sharpness, CA, distortion, etc. between these two? Just FYI, I have 80mm and it is very sharp, center to corner at apertures F8-F13 (did not need to use any others yet). 100% crops of samples would be most useful, in this field pictures speak better than words:)

An interesting link about Mamiya 35mm:
http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/pentax645_fa35mm.html

Thanks,
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 01:51:46 pm by MichaelEzra »
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mcrepsej

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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2007, 06:50:15 am »

Hi Gents.

Yours answer have been very helpful to me.

Today I have a Mamiya RZ IID with 50mm - 75mm - 110mm - 140mm - 250mm (non Apo), and when upgrading my P45 to P45+ I did change from V to Mamiya 645 adapter.

As wider camera I have a Cambo DS Wide with a Schneider 35mm Digitar which is an amazing camera as I can stitch 2 shots horisontal to a panorama or 3 shots vertical to a big file.

My reason to change from V to Mamiya 645 adapter was, beside the possibility to rotate the back on the camera, that I could get some lighter and more handy on-location camera with a bigger file than my Nikon* gives me.

So I think a god start could be a Mamiya 645 AFD II body and the D 75 - 150mm zoom (as reference) and after that get some used lenses which I can test before buying. Could that be a god solution?

*Nikon gear: Body D2x and D200. Lenses: 12-24/4, 17-55/2,8, 18-200/3,5-5,6, 70-200/2,8, 20/2,8, 28/3,5PC, 60/2,8, 85/2,8PC, 85/1,4, 200/2,0, 300/2,8. Converters: 1,4x - 1,7x - 2x. Nikon flash: 4 SB-800, 12 SB-600, 2 SU-800.
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pss

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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2007, 01:34:22 pm »

i have the 35, 80, 55-110 and 150 for 645afd....they are all solid, the 35 is ok, but hey it is a 35mm....i am comparing this to schneider lenses on the rollei6008 and those are better....compared to the hassV lenses, the mamiyas are better, smaller and much cheaper.....the 80 and 150 are great...but really i mostly use the 55-110, which might be the weakest lens, but with the 645af and the P30 it is just about the perfect point and shoot....
when quality is a concern or in studio i mostly shoot with RZ and those lenses are amazing....i have the 127, 140 macro and 180...looking into getting a90 and something wider.....
the 75-150 zoom for the afd sounds great, but for editorial, the 55-110 has the slight edge...i use the wider end more then i thought i would....of course with the P45 the 75-150 might be comparable to the 55-110 on the P30....

either way the mamiya lenses are amazing and a total steal....add in the weight, availablity, sturdiness and absolute lack of mechanical/technical issues....you can't go wrong....
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MarkWelsh

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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2007, 01:59:07 pm »

I just picked up a Mamiya 50mm Shift and it's impressive: at least as good as the CF 50mm Distagons I've used. It performs very well even shifted. I think this one's a keeper!
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sgphoto844

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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2007, 02:30:33 pm »

Quote
Hi
From what I have seen @ L&P ( Mamiya dealer for Australia ) the 28 mm is a very impressive lens both in quality & build. As far as the cost goes Mamiya has been working on this lens for a few years. They were going to bring out a 26mm about 4 years ago  but this lead to the 28 mm. There are only 2 of these lenses on the market. The Hasselblad 28 a true 28 digital lens that will not work with film. This lens will only work with the H3D body & there digital back. I have heard that hasselblad users are very happy with this lens. Back to the Mamiya 28mm this lens will work with all the digital backs out there & this is not an easy lens to make. If you own a Mamiya system you can still pick up many of the other AF lenses on ebay for less money than you would pay for a Canon EF L series lens. For what you save on these lenses ( 35, 45, 55, 80, 120, 150, 200, 300, 55-110. 105-210 all available on ebay in excellent condition ) I don't think $5000.00 USD is a fortune. If you were using the H1 system your total lens kit would be a lot more expensive. In the end you have to test this lens yourself. I am looking at buying the 75-150 in the future even though it is $3000.00 USD. I have saved money because I bought the 45, 150 & 55-110 on ebay for a total of $1750.00 USD. My favorites are the 45, 80 120, 150 & 55-100 ( use the most ).

Thanks Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129786\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not to butt in here, but while we're on the subject of lenses, Denis, have you had any experience with Canon 35mm shift lenses? Or anyone else out there have an opinion? Looking for a way to avoid the proportion problem of putting a digital back on an existing mamiya RZ system.
Thanks(in advance).
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etrump

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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2007, 09:19:53 am »

Quote
Not to butt in here, but while we're on the subject of lenses, Denis, have you had any experience with Canon 35mm shift lenses? Or anyone else out there have an opinion? Looking for a way to avoid the proportion problem of putting a digital back on an existing mamiya RZ system.
Thanks(in advance).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=130867\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have the canon 24mm TSE and it is a great lens.  Pretty sharp wide open and crystal when you close it down a few stops.  The tilt is pretty limited but seems to do the job for me.
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sgphoto844

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« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2007, 12:48:03 pm »

Quote
I have the canon 24mm TSE and it is a great lens.  Pretty sharp wide open and crystal when you close it down a few stops.  The tilt is pretty limited but seems to do the job for me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131004\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks! Going to check them out.
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Steve_Townsend

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« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2007, 01:33:27 pm »

Hi

I have all the TSE lenses and the 24mm is the worst lens!!  I am not saying it is bad but rather the 45 and 90 are much better.  Probably because they are easier to design?

At maximum shift the edge quality of the 24mm TSE gets a bit poor at whatever aperture.

Contrary to the above comment about tilt on the 24, I think the tilt range is amazing and have used that facility many times.

Steve
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stewarthemley

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« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2007, 03:00:07 pm »

Quote
Hi

I have all the TSE lenses and the 24mm is the worst lens!!  I am not saying it is bad but rather the 45 and 90 are much better.  Probably because they are easier to design?

At maximum shift the edge quality of the 24mm TSE gets a bit poor at whatever aperture.

Contrary to the above comment about tilt on the 24, I think the tilt range is amazing and have used that facility many times.

Steve
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131043\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have noticed with Canon lenses (and it probably applies to most if not all makes) there can be quite wide differences in sharpness. My 24 is if anything slightly sharper than my 45. I suppose it's not surprising when you think of all the stages of maunfacture, including assembly, and how tight the tolerances must be. The moral is, if you can, try out a few samples of each lens before you buy. I once found an incredible variation in sharpness between 3 Canon 24-70 L zooms. One stood out as amazingly sharp...so I bought it! (Took the laptop along, zoomed in, etc.)

Interestingly, I have never noticed any difference between samples of the same lens in contrast or colour balance. Could mean I've just not spotted it, although I can't remember seeing anyone claim a difference other than with sharpness.  Anyone spotted any?
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sgphoto844

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« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2007, 03:53:50 pm »

Quote
I have noticed with Canon lenses (and it probably applies to most if not all makes) there can be quite wide differences in sharpness. My 24 is if anything slightly sharper than my 45. I suppose it's not surprising when you think of all the stages of maunfacture, including assembly, and how tight the tolerances must be. The moral is, if you can, try out a few samples of each lens before you buy. I once found an incredible variation in sharpness between 3 Canon 24-70 L zooms. One stood out as amazingly sharp...so I bought it! (Took the laptop along, zoomed in, etc.)

Interestingly, I have never noticed any difference between samples of the same lens in contrast or colour balance. Could mean I've just not spotted it, although I can't remember seeing anyone claim a difference other than with sharpness.  Anyone spotted any?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131055\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks everyone.
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eronald

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« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2007, 06:39:01 pm »

Quote
Thanks everyone.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131059\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I tested the Canon 24 TSE on my agin 1Ds against the Leica 21 M lens on a recent M8 in Shanghai night shots. As expected the Leica is a much much sharper lens. The Canon made much better photographs. I don't know why, but sharpness is not all. The convenience of the shift, and the "look" of the Canon are very good. I had similar experiences in Tokyo a few years ago on a 1DsII, the night shots from the TSE were not super-sharp but they were good enough for me and very pleasant. I could have sold 13x18 gallery prints with no problems from a crop.

I've also done some interior architecture with the Canon and again it was not super-sharp, but it got the job done, at poster size.

In summary, I'd say that the 24mm Canon is like everything Canon, a non-specialist product that performs sufficiently well in most uses. The only caveat is that metering is randomly off when the lens is shifted.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 06:44:12 pm by eronald »
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sgphoto844

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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2007, 01:17:43 pm »

Quote
I tested the Canon 24 TSE on my agin 1Ds against the Leica 21 M lens on a recent M8 in Shanghai night shots. As expected the Leica is a much much sharper lens. The Canon made much better photographs. I don't know why, but sharpness is not all. The convenience of the shift, and the "look" of the Canon are very good. I had similar experiences in Tokyo a few years ago on a 1DsII, the night shots from the TSE were not super-sharp but they were good enough for me and very pleasant. I could have sold 13x18 gallery prints with no problems from a crop.

I've also done some interior architecture with the Canon and again it was not super-sharp, but it got the job done, at poster size.

In summary, I'd say that the 24mm Canon is like everything Canon, a non-specialist product that performs sufficiently well in most uses. The only caveat is that metering is randomly off when the lens is shifted.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131084\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for the input.
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ben decamp

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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2007, 01:35:01 am »

Has anyone used the 24mm fisheye with the AFDii and the P45 back? I am craving to see some results!
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etrump

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« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2007, 09:22:01 am »

Quote
Has anyone used the 24mm fisheye with the AFDii and the P45 back? I am craving to see some results!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=134252\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I just purchased one from KEH to use with my P30+.  The P30 crops a little of the fisheye look which fits my landscape needs nicely.
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ben decamp

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« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2007, 02:33:32 pm »

That sounds interesting. For my use (skateboarding) it is critical to have the 180 degree field of view with the fisheye lens, and I would need to use a full frame back.
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