Silvestri 6x vs Schneider 10x

[Drew Harty]

I recently switched from shooting 4x5 and 8x10 to a Leaf Aptus 65 on an Arca Swiss 6x9 and have been struggling with the greater demands of focusing for the digital back.  I am replacing the Arca GG and fresnel with a Bill Maxwell GG and fresnel, which I currently use on my 4x5, and purchased the Silvestri 6x and Schneider 10x to test both.  Below are my observations about the loupes:

I started by removing the lens and adjusting the diopter on each loupe so the ground glass grain was sharp, then tried using the loupes on a scene lite by direct light and indirect light using a 45mm, 105mm, and a 125mm macro lens.  

1. Both loupes are well made, but I like the way the string attaches to the Silvestri--a quibble I know until you're out in the field and the Schneider falls to the ground.

2.The Schneider has a wider top element (about 1-1/8" dia.) and reqires you to keep your eye locked into postion more to get the clearest image.  The Silvestri has a smaller top element (about 5/8" dia.) and consequently your eye naturally comes to the best viewing position just to see through the loupe.  

3.  The base of the Schneider is about 2" dia. and the Silvestri about 1-1/4" dia., consequently the Silvestri is much easier to focus at the edge of the frame simply because I can place the optic center of the Silvestri over the frame edge for direct through viewing.  Because of the size of the Schneider base, I can't place its optic center over the edge of the frame (it hits the Arca back metal frame), so I must look diagonally through the loupe to focus on objects near the edge of the frame.  This makes using the Schneider to focus near the edge or corners of the frame more difficult.  With the lenght of lens I use, I found no advantage to using the Silvestri base that allows you to tilt the loupe.  (It may be an advantage with wider lens?)  The base just made it difficult to focus near the edge of the frame.

4. I have read that higher magnification loupes don't have an advantage for focusing because they just show more GG grain.  I would now disagree.  The Silvestri 6x and Schneider 10x do show more GG grain, but they offer a much higher degree of confidence focusing because objects snap into and out of focus more.  (Curiously, the large GG grain of the Arca GG didn't cause me anymore problems focusing than the finer grain of the Maxwell GG.)  When focused in the center of the frame, I thought the Schneider 10x offer a higher degree of snap and confidence focusing than the Silvestri 6x due to the higher magnification. With both loupes you do see the fresnel screen more but I didn't find that to be a problem.  (On the Maxwell screen the fresnel appeared as a series of fine black lines that were easy to ignore.)

5.  I noticed no difference in the image quality of each loupe either with direct light or flat, indirect light.

6. With the longer 105mm aned 125mm lens the higher magnifacation of the Schneider 10x was less of an advantage.  


My choice is the Silvestri 6x because of its narrower barrel and advantages in focusing at the edge of the frame.  For those who don't tilt or swing the lens for focus as much and tend to focus on objects near the center of the frame, the Schnedier 10x may have an advantage.

Hope this helps anyone considering the purchase of these two loupes.

Drew Harty
www.drewharty.com

[Larry_Menzin]

Drew,

How much better is the Maxwell screen than the stock A/S ground glass and fresnel? I am considering doing the same upgrade for my A/S 6x9. How much of a difference is the Maxwell screen for 4x5?

I recently switched from shooting 4x5 and 8x10 to a Leaf Aptus 65 on an Arca Swiss 6x9 and have been struggling with the greater demands of focusing for the digital back.  I am replacing the Arca GG and fresnel with a Bill Maxwell GG and fresnel, which I currently use on my 4x5, and purchased the Silvestri 6x and Schneider 10x to test both. 

[Mort54]

3.  The base of the Schneider is about 2" dia. and the Silvestri about 1-1/4" dia., consequently the Silvestri is much easier to focus at the edge of the frame simply because I can place the optic center of the Silvestri over the frame edge for direct through viewing.  Because of the size of the Schneider base, I can't place its optic center over the edge of the frame (it hits the Arca back metal frame), so I must look diagonally through the loupe to focus on objects near the edge of the frame.

Thanks for the useful info, Drew. Given that the digital sensor is only 36mm x 48mm and doesn't fill the 6x9 ground glass, why do you need a loupe that allows you to focus out to the edge of the frame? Don't you just need to focus out to the edge of the sensor area?

[Drew Harty]

Thanks for the useful info, Drew. Given that the digital sensor is only 36mm x 48mm and doesn't fill the 6x9 ground glass, why do you need a loupe that allows you to focus out to the edge of the frame? Don't you just need to focus out to the edge of the sensor area?
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Yes your right, I wasn't clear about that.  I do need to focus at the edge of the sensor area but, on the Arca 6x9, that is about 1/2" from the edge of the back frame, which dosen't allow me to get the large Schneider loupe centered over the edge of the sensor.  I also often shoot landscapes that are a flat plain along the surface of the ground of water, so in most cases my near focus is at the very bottom of the senor frame and the far focus is at the top of the sensor frame.

Drew

[Drew Harty]

Drew,

How much better is the Maxwell screen than the stock A/S ground glass and fresnel? I am considering doing the same upgrade for my A/S 6x9. How much of a difference is the Maxwell screen for 4x5?
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I don't have the Maxwell GG for my Arca 6x9 yet, so I haven't been able to do a direct comparison through the same lens on the same camera, and my 4x5 had only the Arca GG without a fresnel when I switched to the Maxwell screen.  

Comparing my 4x5 with the Maxwell GG and fresnel to the 6x9 with the Arca GG and fresnel, I would say the Maxwell screen is brighter and more evenly illuminated.  The Maxwell screen has a much finer grain on the GG than the Arca, but surprisingly that didn't seem to effect my ability to focus with the 6x and 10x loupes under good illumination.  It may make a difference under low illumination or when focusing on objects that don't have a stronge edge or texture.  The real advantage of the Maxwell screen may be for unaided viewing while composing (a bonus to my middle-aged eyes with the much smaller digital sensor format) and perhaps for viewing with a lower magnification loupe.

I have also ordered a Maxwell screen that Bill says is brighter than the one I have on my 4x5.  Give him a call.  He will talk for hours to determine what is best for you (there are only a couple choices), about the limitations of focusing for digital sensors, about how resolutoin is only one factor in the process of creating sharp prints, about how there are many misconceptions in the field about resolution, about how everyone's eyes are different, and on and on.  He knows his stuff and is more than happy to share his knowledge.  

Drew

[Larry_Menzin]

Drew,

Bill has made a couple of screens for me to be used on other cameras. His screens are light years ahead of the typical GG supplied with stock cameras.

It just seems that the Arca screens supplied with my cameras (both 6x9 and 4x5) are pretty good and the Maxwell upgrades will provide some benefit, but perhaps not enough to overcome the cost/benefit calculation.

Larry

I don't have the Maxwell GG for my Arca 6x9 yet, so I haven't been able to do a direct comparison through the same lens on the same camera, and my 4x5 had only the Arca GG without a fresnel when I switched to the Maxwell screen. 

Comparing my 4x5 with the Maxwell GG and fresnel to the 6x9 with the Arca GG and fresnel, I would say the Maxwell screen is brighter and more evenly illuminated.  The Maxwell screen has a much finer grain on the GG than the Arca, but surprisingly that didn't seem to effect my ability to focus with the 6x and 10x loupes under good illumination.  It may make a difference under low illumination or when focusing on objects that don't have a stronge edge or texture.  The real advantage of the Maxwell screen may be for unaided viewing while composing (a bonus to my middle-aged eyes with the much smaller digital sensor format) and perhaps for viewing with a lower magnification loupe.

I have also ordered a Maxwell screen that Bill says is brighter than the one I have on my 4x5.  Give him a call.  He will talk for hours to determine what is best for you (there are only a couple choices), about the limitations of focusing for digital sensors, about how resolutoin is only one factor in the process of creating sharp prints, about how there are many misconceptions in the field about resolution, about how everyone's eyes are different, and on and on.  He knows his stuff and is more than happy to share his knowledge. 

Drew
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[Jae_Moon]

Drew,

It just seems that the Arca screens supplied with my cameras (both 6x9 and 4x5) are pretty good and the Maxwell upgrades will provide some benefit, but perhaps not enough to overcome the cost/benefit calculation.

Larry
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Larry:

I've been singing  praises of Maxwell screen since I got it for my AS6x9 with P45(H) a year ago. Based on my experiences, Maxwell screen is at least a magnitude brighter (not measured) than standard GG that came with AS. Also I had a focus error with the original GG (at least with H adapter for myP45) but not with Maxwell. I had a couple of email exchanges with AS in their HQs about the error but did not get a satisfactory answer.

I strongly recommend Maxwell screen to anyone using small view camera with DB, especially with anything wider than 47mm.

Drew:

I will give Silvestri a try, I have been using Schneider 10x and I've been rotating the GG to see the obstructed part, just one additional step. How does the 'angled' viewing of Silvestri? Does it help in shift/tilt situations?


Jae Moon