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Author Topic: D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?  (Read 17511 times)

bart alexander

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« on: July 12, 2007, 05:24:24 am »

Anyone compared these two one on one yet? I mean, who of you switched? Obviously apart from image quality, the live view feature is a big plus. Academically speaking, the larger 10mp sensor should be able to capture the same detail as the smaller 12mp sensor using the same lens quality. And, looking through a 1.3 crop viewfinder wins out over a 1.5 viewfinder, let alone the enlarged view of the 1DIII. If I knew someone myself with a 1DIII or one for rent, I'd do this comparison myself.
Thanks to anyone who has thoughts about this.
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roskav

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2007, 06:04:13 am »

I'll be getting a MKIII shortly.  I use a d2x for theatre photography and hope to up my game with the mkIII, basically by increasing my depth of field on stage.  I had thought of selling my Nikon gear but I just use it for too many applications (QTVR(10.5mm), Archmodel pics etc etc) Plus I really think that the 70-200 2.8 is a reason to own a Nikon.  So in the luxurious position of having two overlapping systems, I will be doing some comparative tests on the job.  I will post as soon as I have images.  My delivery date however is constantly being pushed back so I can't guarantee anything very soon!

Ros

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X-Re

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2007, 10:11:28 am »

While its a 1.5x crop camera, the D2X has a very nice viewfinder. I wouldn't consider the viewfinder in the D2X a detriment at all...

I had a D2X, but being a Canon guy, I had problems getting used to the system. The D2X certainly takes nice pictures. I sold the D2X to buy a MkIII. The MkIII seems capable of similar image quality - though I haven't compared prints side by side, yet. Judging from my RAW files in Yellowstone, though, the MkIII is just as good at low ISO, and beats the pants off the D2X at ISO 400 and above. That's a totally non-scientific opinion, and is just my "feel", but there it is.... I doubt many folks are using a D2X for its high ISO capabilities, so...
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Dave Re
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Lisa Nikodym

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2007, 11:09:39 am »

I would think that in this range, the quality of the lens would have a larger impact on the image quality than that of the body.  You can't really do a direct image-quality comparison of the bodies because they take different lenses.  Unless one of them has a feature you can't live without, I'd choose the one with the best lenses in your price range at the focal lengths you need.

And keep in mind that a larger crop factor helps if you primarily use long focal lengths, but hurts if you primarily use short focal lengths.

Lisa
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X-Re

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2007, 11:24:38 am »

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You can't really do a direct image-quality comparison of the bodies because they take different lenses.
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     For the most part, this is true - using the same lens on each would be the only way to do an objective comparison. However - both companies make a superb 70-200/2.8 zoom that seem to be every bit as good as each other. Given that a camera is a system that requires a lens to make an image - images taken with either camera with the equivalent lens should give you a good enough comparison to compare them for your needs...

     The 70-200 is the only one I can vouch for being similar, since I've owned both (sold the Nikon version w/ the D2X). There are probably other valid lenses to compare like this, though...

     I agree, though, Lisa - pick that one that best suits your needs. I could happily make great images with the D2X, as well, so....
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Dave Re
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bart alexander

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2007, 12:11:17 pm »

It may be true that the D2X finder is very nice, but if I compare it to the finder in my film Nikon and the one I used to own, the Kodak 14n, it's pretty bad, even using the 17M . One way or the other there seems to be missing something. Someway I cannot "feel" focus as I could with the full size finders. The 1.3. crop is supposed to be a lot better.
Z-Re, could you please post a flat converted jpeg of a good RAW file of your Yellowstone pics, non sharpened, since it beats the pants off the D2X at ISO 400 and above?
And by the way, being a people photographer, I wouldn't mind using an adapter to use any Nikon lens on the Canon. Thanks.

Quote
While its a 1.5x crop camera, the D2X has a very nice viewfinder. I wouldn't consider the viewfinder in the D2X a detriment at all...

I had a D2X, but being a Canon guy, I had problems getting used to the system. The D2X certainly takes nice pictures. I sold the D2X to buy a MkIII. The MkIII seems capable of similar image quality - though I haven't compared prints side by side, yet. Judging from my RAW files in Yellowstone, though, the MkIII is just as good at low ISO, and beats the pants off the D2X at ISO 400 and above. That's a totally non-scientific opinion, and is just my "feel", but there it is.... I doubt many folks are using a D2X for its high ISO capabilities, so...
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« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 12:13:25 pm by bart alexander »
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X-Re

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2007, 02:36:55 pm »

Quote
Z-Re, could you please post a flat converted jpeg of a good RAW file of your Yellowstone pics, non sharpened, since it beats the pants off the D2X at ISO 400 and above?

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     That's "X", man

     I should probably upload the high res files, but here's a quick and dirty from an ISO800 file. This was Autotoned in Lightroom, and Sharpening was set to 0 - a small crop from the middle of the file (to save some space). This isn't necessarily what I'd call a "good" RAW file, though the subject is relatively sharp, etc - just something I was able to find quickly in between trying to work my day job

[attachment=2809:attachment]

     All the higher ISO stuff that I did w/ the D2X is apparently offline, but here's a roughly similar size crop from an ISO 800 JPEG file from that camera (unfortunately, some sharpening applied - so the noise stands out a little bit more than it would in a RAW file...). Of course, if I had a RAW file at 800, and converted it in LR or ACR, someone would come up with the typical beef that those programs don't do the D2X justice, so... whatever  This file is also Autotoned in Lightroom, which basically applied only a Brightness increase movement on it. Everything else that I have easily available from the D2X is ISO 100, so doesn't really help in this comparison - and, frankly, I'm not too motivated to go dig back through things and reload off of DVD, so....

[attachment=2810:attachment]

     This is all rough and dirty....

     And, for giggles... an ISO 3200 RAW file crop from the MkIII - shot by firelight, the EXIF data says it was 1/13 @ f/2.8. This has had all noise reduction turned off, and sharpening set to 0. To my eye, there's definitely some luminance noise - but the noise level is better than the D2X JPEG @ ISO 800. Oh, BTW - high ISO noise reduction was turned off, and so was long exposure noise reduction.

[attachment=2811:attachment]

     Again, being extremely rough, I'd say a 3+ stop advantage in noise to the MkIII, as compared between these files - keeping in mind the limitations of the comparison. At low ISO, the D2X is superb, no doubt. You'll find many folks talking about not using it above 400, and it *does* tend to get chunky above that - I can see why they might avoid it. The MkIII appears to do quite well at those higher speeds, which was a large factor in why I bought it in the first place, so....

     ETA - you need to keep in mind my disclaimer in the post you quoted, as well...  I wholly admit that my opinion is not based on extensive pixel peeping, and I'm not going to get into pixel peeping to satisfy anyone else's needs, either... I don't have the time or motivation. I did the work I needed to in order to select a platform, and I stated my impressions, so.... You can take or leave what I have to say, of course - its an opinion, and I'm sure you know what they say about those
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 02:39:51 pm by X-Re »
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Dave Re
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bart alexander

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2007, 05:31:42 pm »

Thanks for your reply X,
The reason I asked for the non sharpened jpeg (from RAW) is to see how the file looks like, pixel and detailwise. I've seen the 5D 1DIII comparison pics by Outbackphoto, but there seems to be a slight focusproblem in the 1DIII file. Since sharpening before Photoshop ruins the file, to my taste, I asked for the non sharpened file. I'm even more interested in iso 100-400 files than above. The Yellowsone crop seems a bit desaturated and the iso800 doesn't help to judge the pixel detail. Not meaning to pixelpeep, just looking for a camera capable of showing nature as good as possible. The Live View focus should help here for guaranteed sharp focus and using a proper speed should do the rest. The Yellowstone pics seems to suffer from motionblur if I'm not mistaken.
Kind regards,
Bart

Quote
That's "X", man

     I should probably upload the high res files, but here's a quick and dirty from an ISO800 file. This was Autotoned in Lightroom, and Sharpening was set to 0 - a small crop from the middle of the file (to save some space). This isn't necessarily what I'd call a "good" RAW file, though the subject is relatively sharp, etc - just something I was able to find quickly in between trying to work my day job



     All the higher ISO stuff that I did w/ the D2X is apparently offline, but here's a roughly similar size crop from an ISO 800 JPEG file from that camera (unfortunately, some sharpening applied - so the noise stands out a little bit more than it would in a RAW file...). Of course, if I had a RAW file at 800, and converted it in LR or ACR, someone would come up with the typical beef that those programs don't do the D2X justice, so... whatever  This file is also Autotoned in Lightroom, which basically applied only a Brightness increase movement on it. Everything else that I have easily available from the D2X is ISO 100, so doesn't really help in this comparison - and, frankly, I'm not too motivated to go dig back through things and reload off of DVD, so....



     This is all rough and dirty....

     And, for giggles... an ISO 3200 RAW file crop from the MkIII - shot by firelight, the EXIF data says it was 1/13 @ f/2.8. This has had all noise reduction turned off, and sharpening set to 0. To my eye, there's definitely some luminance noise - but the noise level is better than the D2X JPEG @ ISO 800. Oh, BTW - high ISO noise reduction was turned off, and so was long exposure noise reduction.



     Again, being extremely rough, I'd say a 3+ stop advantage in noise to the MkIII, as compared between these files - keeping in mind the limitations of the comparison. At low ISO, the D2X is superb, no doubt. You'll find many folks talking about not using it above 400, and it *does* tend to get chunky above that - I can see why they might avoid it. The MkIII appears to do quite well at those higher speeds, which was a large factor in why I bought it in the first place, so....

     ETA - you need to keep in mind my disclaimer in the post you quoted, as well...  I wholly admit that my opinion is not based on extensive pixel peeping, and I'm not going to get into pixel peeping to satisfy anyone else's needs, either... I don't have the time or motivation. I did the work I needed to in order to select a platform, and I stated my impressions, so.... You can take or leave what I have to say, of course - its an opinion, and I'm sure you know what they say about those
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X-Re

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2007, 07:20:24 pm »

Quote
The Yellowsone crop seems a bit desaturated and the iso800 doesn't help to judge the pixel detail.

     Well, realize its unretouched - just auto-adjusted by Lightroom, which is to say the file is not optimized. It was taken under overcast conditions in the morning, so the file is a little flat in terms of contrast (and saturation) - the white balance hasn't been adjusted, either, so...

     But - you've got the pixel level detail, there... Overall, the MkIII impresses me with being very smooth at the pixel level. That crop was real pixel size - if you view it at 100%, you're seeing actual pixels in the original file. So... judge it for what its worth

Quote
Not meaning to pixelpeep, just looking for a camera capable of showing nature as good as possible. The Live View focus should help here for guaranteed sharp focus and using a proper speed should do the rest. The Yellowstone pics seems to suffer from motionblur if I'm not mistaken.
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     On the ISO 3200 shot, yes, there is almost certainly motion blur in that shot. It was taken at 1/13th w/ a 50mm lens, so... I don't think I'm that solid that I wouldn't get any blur in the shot

     On the marmot shot at ISO 800, from the rest of the file, there may be just a taste of motion blur - it was at 1/500 and taken at an effective 280mm (70-200 w/ 1.4x) and f/4. So, it may be a little of just plain old unsharpness in the lens combo. Also, I was handheld and standing in an awkward position, so it wouldn't surprise me if I wasn't a rock  Capture sharpening helps it out quite a bit, though.

     These were both cases of grabbing shots as they happened - they were reasonable examples of higher ISO performance, and weren't intended to show off anything else but that (either the capabilities of the camera as a landscape tool, or my abilities as a photographer  ).

     Files from the camera seem very nice at ISO 100. PM me your email address, and I'll send you an example or two to look at...

     Dave
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Dave Re
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macgyver

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2007, 01:47:27 am »

Bart,  I would refer you to the initial Rob Galbraith article.  It's not "scientific" pixel peeping, but it gives a good idea of high ISO differences between the two cameras.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_pag...cid=7-8738-8908
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bob mccarthy

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2007, 04:35:10 am »

When i first read this thread, I thought,  troll. Go back to dpreview.

It's common knowledge that Nikon and Canon sought out opposing parameters during the design of their cameras. Canon is master of high ISO situations, Nikon has a bias towards low ISO file quality.

They both succeed.

Bob
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bart alexander

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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2007, 04:39:56 am »

You know, I prefer untouched for judging files, since the camera should be able to produce image quality by itself    1/500s for the marmot is pretty slow. A marmot moves very fast, even if you cannot see it with your eyes. That and handholding a 70-200 with converter from a distance, is really pushing it. But maybe, I'm pushing things now, wanting to see image detail that goes beyond we have seen. The image quality I could capture with the Kodak 14n with a cheap lens is only reached with a D2X with a very sharp lens. Must say the Rob Galbraith files come very close to perfection (Thanks Macgyver!).
X, I'll send you my email address. Thanks!


Quote
Well, realize its unretouched - just auto-adjusted by Lightroom, which is to say the file is not optimized. It was taken under overcast conditions in the morning, so the file is a little flat in terms of contrast (and saturation) - the white balance hasn't been adjusted, either, so...

     But - you've got the pixel level detail, there... Overall, the MkIII impresses me with being very smooth at the pixel level. That crop was real pixel size - if you view it at 100%, you're seeing actual pixels in the original file. So... judge it for what its worth
     On the ISO 3200 shot, yes, there is almost certainly motion blur in that shot. It was taken at 1/13th w/ a 50mm lens, so... I don't think I'm that solid that I wouldn't get any blur in the shot

     On the marmot shot at ISO 800, from the rest of the file, there may be just a taste of motion blur - it was at 1/500 and taken at an effective 280mm (70-200 w/ 1.4x) and f/4. So, it may be a little of just plain old unsharpness in the lens combo. Also, I was handheld and standing in an awkward position, so it wouldn't surprise me if I wasn't a rock  Capture sharpening helps it out quite a bit, though.

     These were both cases of grabbing shots as they happened - they were reasonable examples of higher ISO performance, and weren't intended to show off anything else but that (either the capabilities of the camera as a landscape tool, or my abilities as a photographer  ).

     Files from the camera seem very nice at ISO 100. PM me your email address, and I'll send you an example or two to look at...

     Dave
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bart alexander

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2007, 11:36:31 am »

Looking forward to your comparison Ros!

Quote
I'll be getting a MKIII shortly.  I use a d2x for theatre photography and hope to up my game with the mkIII, basically by increasing my depth of field on stage.  I had thought of selling my Nikon gear but I just use it for too many applications (QTVR(10.5mm), Archmodel pics etc etc) Plus I really think that the 70-200 2.8 is a reason to own a Nikon.  So in the luxurious position of having two overlapping systems, I will be doing some comparative tests on the job.  I will post as soon as I have images.  My delivery date however is constantly being pushed back so I can't guarantee anything very soon!

Ros

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Khun_K

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2007, 02:20:57 am »

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Looking forward to your comparison Ros!
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In order to not pre-occupy who will be using such cameras, I think it is equally important to compare the file of different cameras as original raw, un-retouched jpeg as well as the file ability to be retouched - after all, there are many art form that is extended from the digital capture and many commercial output does need such ability. I think people will be very interested to find out cameras compare in these perspectives.
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yrsued

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2007, 10:55:12 pm »

Quote
For the most part, this is true - using the same lens on each would be the only way to do an objective comparison. However - both companies make a superb 70-200/2.8 zoom that seem to be every bit as good as each other. Given that a camera is a system that requires a lens to make an image - images taken with either camera with the equivalent lens should give you a good enough comparison to compare them for your needs...

     The 70-200 is the only one I can vouch for being similar, since I've owned both (sold the Nikon version w/ the D2X). There are probably other valid lenses to compare like this, though...

     I agree, though, Lisa - pick that one that best suits your needs. I could happily make great images with the D2X, as well, so....
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I agree with Dave 100%, Dave knows I love my D2X, but...... I shoot Canon too.  Maybe Dave & I can get together soon.  Maybe in Tulsa      and we can compare bodies!!  Remember man, I'll have the loaner 1DsMKII there too!!

Y
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 10:57:07 pm by yrsued »
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X-Re

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« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2007, 03:38:24 pm »

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Maybe in Tulsa      and we can compare bodies!!  Remember man, I'll have the loaner 1DsMKII there too!!
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     Hey, buddy!!!

     Here he goes w/ the Tulsa thing again    

     At least you dropped by the forum over here...
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Dave Re
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yrsued

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2007, 05:52:40 pm »

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Hey, buddy!!!

     Here he goes w/ the Tulsa thing again    

     At least you dropped by the forum over here...
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Dude, I want my shooting buddy at this event!!  At least someone wants you around    

Y
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KAP

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2007, 11:12:29 am »

Quote from: Roskav,Jul 12 2007, 11:04 AM
I'll be getting a MKIII shortly.  I use a d2x for theatre photography and hope to up my game with the mkIII, basically by increasing my depth of field on stage.

How will a MkIII have more depth of field? If anything a little less.

Kevin.
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yrsued

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« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2007, 11:19:01 am »

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How will a MkIII have more depth of field? If anything a little less.

Kevin.
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Right you are !!

The Slightly larger Sensor will yield less DOF with the same Focal Length Lens

Y
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roskav

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D2X versus 1DmkIII, what's the verdict?
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2007, 01:28:49 pm »

Good quality high ISO = greater depth of field at a given shutter speed.
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