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Author Topic: iPF6100 - early info?  (Read 6737 times)

mvandenbos

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iPF6100 - early info?
« on: July 03, 2007, 06:01:11 am »

I'm interested in purchasing a 24inch printer for relatively small runs of fine art photos. The two models I'm debating are the Canon iPF6100 and the HP z3100 ...

Just wondering if there are any early feedback reports on the iPF6100? early reviews even?

With thanks

Mehdi
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Scott Martin

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2007, 11:25:46 pm »

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Just wondering if there are any early feedback reports on the iPF6100? early reviews even?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=126199\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Resellers got shipments late last week and end customers are getting shipments this week. One source describes the new black inks as having the least bronzing of the three brands (HP, Epson Canon).

I'm disappointed with the bronzing on the Z series blacks. The gloss enhancer helps the gloss differential but not the bronzing.

Searching for the perfect printer is a lot like searching for the perfect camera!
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thierryd

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2007, 02:41:38 am »

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I'm disappointed with the bronzing on the Z series blacks. The gloss enhancer helps the gloss differential but not the bronzing.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=126332\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
 
Which one are you using ?
I have the  Z3100 (24"). I printed on HP Premium Instant Dry Satin, HP Premium Instant Dry Gloss, Kentmere Crystal Jet Satin and I didn't notice any bronzing until now. (I know what's bronzing, I had an Epson 4000 too    )
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Scott Martin

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2007, 11:17:37 am »

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Which one are you using ?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=126345\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

12 color Z3100. In comparison to the other brands I find HP's bronzing disappointing. Make some prints on the same papers on K3 and iPF printers and you'll see what I mean.
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thierryd

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2007, 11:35:00 am »

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12 color Z3100. In comparison to the other brands I find HP's bronzing disappointing. Make some prints on the same papers on K3 and iPF printers and you'll see what I mean.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=126453\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't notice any bronzing at all, that's why I'm asking on which paper do you notice some bronzing ?
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Scott Martin

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2007, 12:14:14 pm »

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I don't notice any bronzing at all, that's why I'm asking on which paper do you notice some bronzing ?[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=126457\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
A variety of papers. HP Contract proofing, ProofLine PressWhite, several HP glossy and semigloss papers, etc.
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thierryd

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2007, 02:48:35 pm »

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A variety of papers. HP Contract proofing, ProofLine PressWhite, several HP glossy and semigloss papers, etc.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=126468\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Something must be wrong with my eyes...  
From my personal experiment , K3 is better than Vivera without gloss, but with gloss, until now, I never noticed bronzing with Vivera inks. I can see some bronzing (if I am really looking for) with K3.
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mvandenbos

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2007, 09:17:12 pm »

Thanks guys

I was looking for more info on the 6100 (rather than debate on the K3 inks)

I appreciate your input onsight,

mehdi
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thierryd

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2007, 03:18:23 am »

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Thanks guys
I was looking for more info on the 6100 (rather than debate on the K3 inks)
mehdi
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=126931\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
 
Equipped with the ability to recalibrate itself to the original factory settings, the  iPF6100 printer is a new solution between Epson (No recalibration, no profile) and HP (recalibration and profile).
Obviously the new actors of the professionnal printing think recalibration is a must have. It looks quiet obvious now even if I never heard before Epson's users asking for recalibration...
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Gary Damaskos

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2007, 09:24:54 pm »

I am under the impression that it really means that rebuilding profiles once in a while is a good idea  (at least that seems like a reasonable induction from Canons new offering (for Canon iPFs). For those with profiling making equipment, one may not need the offering IF one is willing to rebuild the profiles every some unspecified amount of time. Or depending on cost differential and already having equipment or not, it will be or will not be worth it to have the new x100 Canons.
Gary

Quote

Equipped with the ability to recalibrate itself to the original factory settings, the  iPF6100 printer is a new solution between Epson (No recalibration, no profile) and HP (recalibration and profile).
Obviously the new actors of the professionnal printing think recalibration is a must have. It looks quiet obvious now even if I never heard before Epson's users asking for recalibration...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=126957\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Scott Martin

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2007, 10:26:51 pm »

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I am under the impression that it really means that rebuilding profiles once in a while is a good idea  (at least that seems like a reasonable induction from Canons new offering (for Canon iPFs).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127196\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The idea behind any device that has it's own calibration routine is that the self calibration allows it to be consistent over time eliminating the need for frequent re-profiling. With these devices the mantra is "profile once, calibrate many." As long as the calibration is good, the profile is valid. That's the theory at least and that's what I'm hoping for with Canon's newly updated printers.

Epson's stance without self calibration is interesting. Piezoelectric have historically been quite stable. But I'm noticing that printers in the field that see regular 4+ hours a day use do change over time. With constant use the heads open up, start putting down more ink and the shadows slowly start to plug up. The process is so slow that people rarely notice it. I'm finding that re-profiling Epsons annually is a good policy for photo labs and print shops that use these printers heavily. Casual users rarely have to re-profile during the lifespan of their Epson. It will be fun to analyze iPF and Z printers in this respect.
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neil snape

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2007, 01:03:10 am »

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The idea behind any device that has it's own calibration routine is that the self calibration allows it to be consistent over time eliminating the need for frequent re-profiling. With these devices the mantra is "profile once, calibrate many." As long as the calibration is good, the profile is valid. That's the theory at least and that's what I'm hoping for with Canon's newly updated printers.

Epson's stance without self calibration is interesting. Piezoelectric have historically been quite stable. But I'm noticing that printers in the field that see regular 4+ hours a day use do change over time. With constant use the heads open up, start putting down more ink and the shadows slowly start to plug up. The process is so slow that people rarely notice it. I'm finding that re-profiling Epson annually is a good policy for photo labs and print shops that use these printers heavily. Casual users rarely have to re-profile during the lifespan of their Epson. It will be fun to analyze iPF and Z printers in this respect.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127202\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You are quite right on high cycle duty printers. It is not only the differences in flow that count in variation of output but also of heads that are clogged partially or fully , permanent or temporary.
The new Canon x100 series are as I read it , going to use a colorimeter to read densities on solids colors to build a LUT with corrections for the known characteristics of the media used in the calibration. This is exactly what the HP Photosmart 9180 does. In the end it is a calibration of the writing system that doesn't take into account the media qualities or characteristics, nor any effects that operating conditions would have on the media at the time of calibration.
It is a good step towards maintaining a control working condition, and makes changing the heads possible at any time without changing profiles or saved spooled jobs for reprints.
I do feel this is necessary for pro printers with thermal heads as a minimum requirement. It will give more consistent results with the canned profiles but not as good as spectro based calibration , nor calibration /profiles made per media.
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mcmorrison

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2007, 10:34:49 pm »

Hello,

I am still confused about the type of media used to do the calibration on the Canon x100 printers. It seems to me that a calibration done on one paper would yield a different result than another calibration done on another paper. Is there a special paper used for calibration? Or does one simply need to choose a paper and stick with it?

I like the idea of a printer that calibrates itself, and then making my own profiles, so I have hopes for the new Canons. Now about the cost of the print heads. . .

Thanks,

Michael Morrison
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neil snape

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2007, 01:08:25 am »

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Hello,

I am still confused about the type of media used to do the calibration on the Canon x100 printers. It seems to me that a calibration done on one paper would yield a different result than another calibration done on another paper. Is there a special paper used for calibration? Or does one simply need to choose a paper and stick with it?

I like the idea of a printer that calibrates itself, and then making my own profiles, so I have hopes for the new Canons. Now about the cost of the print heads. . .

Thanks,

Michael Morrison
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127509\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It is a reflection density table that is created from a filtered correlated colorimeter. Simple enough but good enough at the same time to allow system writing condition checks and correction for overall writing condition. For example if a number of nozzles are not firing as well as they should they are remapped. If this causes a difference in the output it is measured and corrected by the colorimeter, which in turn let's the print heads be corrected for this output condition . In theory this should make the writing system close to factory default. All the profiles then should be aligned to this optimal state, and avoids variation between printers, ink changes, print head wear. It doesn't take into account the actual media , nor ink limiting per media.
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mcmorrison

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2007, 02:21:36 pm »

Hello Neil,

Thanks for the info!

From what you say, I still wonder if one must use the same media (and media settings?) every time a calibration is run? Does Canon say to use a particular paper? The same paper?

Thanks!

Michael Morrison
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neil snape

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iPF6100 - early info?
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2007, 02:37:53 pm »

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Hello Neil,

Thanks for the info!

From what you say, I still wonder if one must use the same media (and media settings?) every time a calibration is run? Does Canon say to use a particular paper? The same paper?

Thanks!

Michael Morrison
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127637\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes I think they do. I don't have a Canon (yet) but I understand it works as the 9180 does with a calibration on a photo type paper.
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