Custom paper Silver rag

[Charles Gast]

I am reading from the latest HP tip and it says for custom paper Museo Silver Rag to use  Custom >fine art pearl    The problem is there is not paper type of that description in the drop downs on the HP custom paper dialoge

[Jim Cole]

Fine Art Pearl is located in under the Custom Paper type when you are setting up a new paper.

It is there on my XP Windows system. Have you looked there? It's not where you would expect.

Jim

[hilljf]

Make sure you have updated the Printer firmware to the current version.  This paper type was not available in the initial firmware versions.

John

[neil snape]

Make sure you have updated the Printer firmware to the current version.  This paper type was not available in the initial firmware versions.

John
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You can also update some oms media profiles from the utility after downloading from the HP site. That's what I did for the pearl more ink....

[Geoff Wittig]

HP's battery of drivers and utilities are pretty counterintuitive, but they work eventually. First, you need to have the latest firmware (v 5.0.0.4 for Windows XP) loaded. This includes a media preset for custom paper- fine art pearl, but it isn't all that useful by itself. Next, you need to go to HP's media preset download page and download the new presets you want. For Crane silver rag, that's fine art pearl (more ink). Save the file on your hard disc where you can find it again. Next, go to the printer's "HP Easy Printer Care" utility and click on the "support" tab. Then you click on the "firmware update" icon, and from the menus on the left side click on media update. This brings up another box that lets you browse to the new media preset file on your hard disc. When you finally click "go", this file gets loaded on your printer, which promptly reboots itself. Unfortunately it has to reboot after every single new preset you install, so this can be time consuming if you want to add more than one new media type.

Finally, if you're still awake, you can use the new preset and go through the HP Color Center utility to calibrate and profile the paper. The final results with Crane silver rag, at least for me, were well worth the trouble. Excellent D-max and color accuracy, though the warm color of the paper base makes it impossible to get cool toned highlights in a B&W print.

I do at least appreciate that HP's PDF on using non-HP papers explains exactly what the different media presets are doing in terms of ink limit, printhead height and gloss enhancer.

[neil snape]

Oh yes! Just measured Innova Fibra black, and it comes in at around L 5.7   0.4 -3.2  .
For a gloss fibre base look alike this is great. I can make it darker too if I use a slight bit of composite.

So looks like the settings HP did with more ink are nice.

What are you getting for blacks with these settings on various media like Crane, Hhanemuhle, etc?

[Geoff Wittig]

I must confess that I don't own a freestanding gadget capable of measuring D-max; I have a few prints I made on an Epson 2400 on Luster paper that I use as my benchmark for good blacks, knowing that they come in at about 2.3 or better.

Crane silver rag gives me shadow density that is very close, with a much nicer surface. Hahnemühle fine art pearl has a much more neutral paper base than the warm silver rag, but the shadows are visibly less deep, and I got repeated zebra stripes from head strikes no matter what setting I used, so this paper is now relegated to my 2400.

[kers]

Crane silver rag gives me shadow density that is very close, with a much nicer surface. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124181\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Geoff,

tell me,

did you succeed printing the museo silver Rag completely without gloss differential?
how does the surface react with the Gloss enhancer?

[Charles Gast]

I have the oms file installed but it won't let me use that custom paper type to create and rename a custom paper.
When I type in for instance Silver Rag and then select under paper type Custom/Fine Art Pearl  it gives me an error and says to contact HP support.
I am having to profile the paper type and leave it named fine art pearl instead.

[Jim Cole]

I have the oms file installed but it won't let me use that custom paper type to create and rename a custom paper.
When I type in for instance Silver Rag and then select under paper type Custom/Fine Art Pearl  it gives me an error and says to contact HP support.
I am having to profile the paper type and leave it named fine art pearl instead.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124258\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Charles,

Same here. Fine Art Pearl More Ink paper type is listed, but I cannot use it to add a new paper. I get the same message to contact HP Support.

Please let me know what you find out.

Jim

[mcbroomf]

I have the oms file installed but it won't let me use that custom paper type to create and rename a custom paper.
When I type in for instance Silver Rag and then select under paper type Custom/Fine Art Pearl  it gives me an error and says to contact HP support.
I am having to profile the paper type and leave it named fine art pearl instead.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124258\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I had a similar problem when I first got the printer.  I shortened the name I was using and left no spaces and was able to create profiles from then on..this was on the original driver but it was on one of the Custom presets (FAP didn't exist then).

[Geoff Wittig]

Quote:
Geoff,
tell me,
did you succeed printing the museo silver Rag completely without gloss differential?
how does the surface react with the Gloss enhancer?


You can see a different "sheen" to the paper from the gloss enhancer around the borders of the print, where the gloss enhancer is printed perhaps 5 – 8 mm beyond the actual image area. At least to my eye there is little if any gloss differential, though you can occasionally catch a hint of irridescence at extreme angles. Silver rag looks far cleaner with much less annoying reflectivity than I get with Epson premium luster.

[f64digital]

Hello!

I have to say before starting SORRY for my English!!

I am the ower of the Spanish web "f/64 digital", dedicated to photography-printing and colour management. I recently adquired a z3100 44'... just about 5 months ago.

I have exactly the same problem when trying to add a new custom paper using one of the new presets published on the HP's web  "more ink" & "less ink" saying to contact to the HP support.

Has somebody contacted to ho HP support about this issue??

I'd got plenty of problems with this machine, and still have many of them: guide-roller marks with many of the non-hp papers (like Kodak Glossy, Epson Velvet Fine Art, Permajet Fibre-based gloss, Fuji "Baryte") and a lot lower scratch resistence on glossy papers than with Epson K3 inks (I also own a 7800 machine working with no problems with all these papers). The Epson machines have a rubber band covering the guide rollers. The z3100 prints are a very fragile thing... I have to be very careful when handling then... a simple nail touch lives a scratch, even if it has been printed out days ago. I have not had theese problems with my Epson... it gets difficult to leave marks when handling if I leave the prints drying just one day. I have compared this issue also with the HP ID photo gloss paper... and when using the K3 inks are a lot harder to scratchs

The Z3100 has very hard pastic roller that leaves marks on many papers, that don't disappear even usign the gloss enhacer....

[neil snape]

I must confess that I don't own a freestanding gadget capable of measuring D-max; I have a few prints I made on an Epson 2400 on Luster paper that I use as my benchmark for good blacks, knowing that they come in at about 2.3 or better.

Crane silver rag gives me shadow density that is very close, with a much nicer surface. Hahnemühle fine art pearl has a much more neutral paper base than the warm silver rag, but the shadows are visibly less deep, and I got repeated zebra stripes from head strikes no matter what setting I used, so this paper is now relegated to my 2400.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124181\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Zebra stripes as in head height should be cured now. I do have the top roller marks on the prototype Innova paper though. It's not the bottom roller but the little top ones 14mm each and 14mm apart. They scratch the surface, and are too tight. Vacuum would have been better for these types of media I am afraid.

[Geoff Wittig]

Zebra stripes as in head height should be cured now.

I wish!
I have profiled Hahnemühle fine art pearl using the new media preset fine art pearl (more ink), which should set the print head height to the higher setting. Despite this I still got a nasty zebra stripe dead-center on the page when printing a black & white photo. I presume the problem is that this paper just ripples too much under the ink load while printing. Looks fine after it comes out and dries, but by then the head strike has already happened. In a thread dating back to shortly after this printer was released, some folks suggested that perhaps the problem was excessively low ambient humidity. Despite our dry summer, that's definitely not the case in my location. Please let me know if there's some other secret fix for this, as I really like this paper.

[neil snape]

Zebra stripes as in head height should be cured now.

I wish!
I have profiled Hahnemühle fine art pearl using the new media preset fine art pearl (more ink), which should set the print head height to the higher setting. Despite this I still got a nasty zebra stripe dead-center on the page when printing a black & white photo. I presume the problem is that this paper just ripples too much under the ink load while printing. Looks fine after it comes out and dries, but by then the head strike has already happened. In a thread dating back to shortly after this printer was released, some folks suggested that perhaps the problem was excessively low ambient humidity. Despite our dry summer, that's definitely not the case in my location. Please let me know if there's some other secret fix for this, as I really like this paper.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124454\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No , with H pearl, you don't want to use more ink. This paper already buckles (cockle) with lighter ink loads. If more pressure is set with the rollers you would have pizza cutter marks, and or roller engravings. The paper is perfectly flat in the rollers, it's the ink that is causing cockle. If you use more ink the problem is going to be worse. I tested the prototype Hahnemuhle revised Pearl and saw that it wasn't going to be a fully compatible media with the HP writing system. It requires vacuum for flatness control if the ink loads are high.

[Ernst Dinkla]

No , with H pearl, you don't want to use more ink. This paper already buckles (cockle) with lighter ink loads. If more pressure is set with the rollers you would have pizza cutter marks, and or roller engravings. The paper is perfectly flat in the rollers, it's the ink that is causing cockle. If you use more ink the problem is going to be worse. I tested the prototype Hahnemuhle revised Pearl and saw that it wasn't going to be a fully compatible media with the HP writing system. It requires vacuum for flatness control if the ink loads are high.
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It may be more complicated. Printing a similar paper Innova F type gloss I do not get head strikes or pizza wheel marks but there are impression marks of the paper transport rolls (I think) before the ink is reaching the paper. First the coating must be too soft or the pressure of the rolls too high. I could not use that paper on my older Epsons either because the MIS ink I used didn't work well with it but at least the buckling was far less.

I think the transport rollers pressure has an influence as it also will limit sideways movement of the paper. Though the ink gets onto and into the paper after that point the expansion forces in the paper work backwards as well. If you constrain that expansion at the transport rollers the buckling gets more pronounced near the head and further on.

I don't think that drying time helps either, the actual expansion is in the paper base, the longer the paper is in the printer the more expansion you get. So it may be even wiser to give it more printing speed and let the expansion happen further on, with the risk a wet surface creates. Another option is to lower the transport roller pressure if that is possible on media choice. There will be less dimension control in printing but a compromise has to be made somewhere. What is actually the largest size they deliver this paper type in ?  Could the smaller size be related to what I sketch here.

It could be that that paper is en vogue right now but it has a lot of characteristics that  make it a difficult paper for inkjet printing. The inks are not waterproof on the quality I have, it buckles and it is easy to damage in general.

Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]

[f64digital]

It may be more complicated. Printing a similar paper Innova F type gloss I do not get head strikes or pizza wheel marks but there are impression marks of the paper transport rolls (I think) before the ink is reaching the paper. First the coating must be too soft or the pressure of the rolls too high. I could not use that paper on my older Epsons either because the MIS ink I used didn't work well with it but at least the buckling was far less.

This is exactly the problem I have. Similar papers to this one are Fuji "Baryte" and Permajet Fibre-Based gloss.

I have the same transport-roll marks in both papers. They also appear win Kodak Professional Glossy.

There is no way to lower pre pressure of the transport rolls, because the mechanism is fixed; there is no regulation nor hardware or software.

I have tried to put an adhesive tape to every roller to soften the surface. After doing this, there are no transport roller marks o the fuji paper, so I think the problem is the  hard surface of the transport rollers. The Epson ones have a thin rubber band covering all transport rollers leaving no marks (the Epson rollers pressure is also very high)

I don't think that drying time helps either, the actual expansion is in the paper base, the longer the paper is in the printer the more expansion you get. So it may be even wiser to give it more printing speed and let the expansion happen further on, with the risk a wet surface creates.

I think so

Another option is to lower the transport roller pressure if that is possible on media choice. There will be less dimension control in printing but a compromise has to be made somewhere. What is actually the largest size they deliver this paper type in ?  Could the smaller size be related to what I sketch here.

It is no possible to lower this pressure without redesigning the transport-rolls mechanism


Carlos E. Mora

www.f64digital.com

[Ernst Dinkla]

It is no possible to lower this pressure without redesigning the transport-rolls mechanism
Carlos E. Mora

www.f64digital.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124510\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Possibly, yet I get the impression that there's a difference in pressure when you lift the lever for the auto "descewing" of roll paper (when it isn't straight right away after inserting) to when you unload roll paper. I wonder if it is just the lever that is applying the pressure.

I'm not in the mood to change things myself as I used to do on Epsons but there should be something possible. However against that idea of a DIY approach is the sharp grit on the underlying paper transport roll, it will be very difficult to get some friction control in any direction by reducing the pressure , more likely that it is a "yes or no" result one gets. The pizza wheel height is something else but I have no problems here with pizza wheel marks.

The absence of a vacuum underneath the paper doesn't make much difference in my opinion, you can't pull paper waves like that flat with a vacuum and still have paper transport. HP had to do something to keep paper flat against the printer there and as I expected they placed the transport rollers over the centre of the transport spindle and by that the paper makes a slight inward curve between transport spindle and the printer surface it rests against. Done a similar thing on Epsons when I had to print curved museum boards of 1.8 mm thick. It may have an influence on what is happening here with the fiber papers.

I think that a different fiber paper, one that has a membrane that still allows some fluid through to the paper base but not that fast could be a solution. And the soft coating is not just in printing itself a risk but later on too. Keeping it stored at 30% humidity probably makes the coating harder but may increase the buckling in printing then. This also could be what makes the difference in the reported problems, the people that feed the fiber based papers bone dry get more buckling and pizza wheel marks but not the transport roller marks, here my papers are more round the 55-60% humidity mark and I get transport roller marks and no excessive buckling + no pizza wheel marks. The prints here lying in the studio curve inwards, the paper expands more than the coating at the humidity level here, no GE printed on top.


One shouldn't print analogue paper on an inkjet :-)


Ernst Dinkla

www.pigment-print.com