RAW support for backs

[rainer_v]

I shoot the lowest ISO I can use, often in the 125th/250th range - but I am shooting close to the ground and often subjects that are moving.  I shoot almost always wide-open or close to it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124326\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

which difference between the ks4 and the ks6? is there any secondhand market for gyros?

[stevekhart]

Digital Asset Management

Kevin,

You can download and try Lightroom free for 30 days.  Lightroom does support raw files from a number of digital backs (including Phase P45). The upcoming 1.1 update will apparently handlle the Phase + series backs (based on the assumption it will incorporate Adobe Camera Raw 4.1, which processes + files).

I own both Aperture and Lightroom and do prefer LR, although I do not do as much querying as it sounds like you do.  Lightroom has similar DAM querying and flltering capabilities.  It's worth taking a look at.

Brad
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124149\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm finding that PS CS3 / ACR4.1 only sees the thumbnail from my P30+ files, is there a way round this?

Steve

[Camdavidson]

which difference between the ks4 and the ks6? is there any secondhand market for gyros?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[a href=\"http://www.ken-lab.com/]Ken Lab Gyro's - web page[/url]
http://www.ken-lab.com/


Look on ebay.  I would not buy a used one. They are not that expensive and their have been enough changes made to them over the years in battery, design and if one was dropped you would not know it until too late.

Ken-Lab is a fantastic company.  You could rent one from them with no problem.

CD

[bradleygibson]

Your experiences agree with what I had been reading about ACR 4.1, but after William asked me to double-check on my posting, I tried it myself to be sure.

I was able to pull up previews of several P45+ raw files in Bridge CS3, and was able to develop one at full resolution into Photoshop.

Just tried again and it is working fine.  The loupe function works in Bridge and ACR recognizes it and develops it properly. I didn't do anything special.

Not that I think this would matter but I'm on PS CS3 Extended on OS X 10.4.10.

I wonder if they put in support for some + models but not others?  If your P30+ files are still not working for you, you c an e-mail me one and I'll try it on my system.  Unfortunately I don't have any P30+ raw files to try.

-Brad

I'm finding that PS CS3 / ACR4.1 only sees the thumbnail from my P30+ files, is there a way round this?

Steve
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124334\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[stevekhart]

Your experiences agree with what I had been reading about ACR 4.1, but after William asked me to double-check on my posting, I tried it myself to be sure.

I was able to pull up previews of several P45+ raw files in Bridge CS3, and was able to develop one at full resolution into Photoshop.

Just tried again and it is working fine.  The loupe function works in Bridge and ACR recognizes it and develops it properly. I didn't do anything special.

Not that I think this would matter but I'm on PS CS3 Extended on OS X 10.4.10.

I wonder if they put in support for some + models but not others?  If your P30+ files are still not working for you, you c an e-mail me one and I'll try it on my system.  Unfortunately I don't have any P30+ raw files to try.

-Brad
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124354\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Brad, you have mail. I'm on PC, not mac.

[william]

Same here: in Bridge/PS CS 3/ACR 4.1/Lightroom, it will only see the small thumbnails from my P30+ files.  So if it's reading Brad's P45+ files fine, it must not support all the Plus backs (or at least, the P30+) yet.

I'm finding that PS CS3 / ACR4.1 only sees the thumbnail from my P30+ files, is there a way round this?

Steve
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124334\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[eronald]

Do stabilised lenses eg. Canon deal with the vibration ?

Edmund

Ken Lab Gyro's - web page
http://www.ken-lab.com/
Look on ebay.  I would not buy a used one. They are not that expensive and their have been enough changes made to them over the years in battery, design and if one was dropped you would not know it until too late.

Ken-Lab is a fantastic company.  You could rent one from them with no problem.

CD
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124351\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Camdavidson]

Do stabilised lenses eg. Canon deal with the vibration ?

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124368\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

IS lenses IF used with a GYRO will induce vertigo - it is one or the other (for most people)

IS/VR  is the Volkswagen compared to the Ferrari.

[bradleygibson]

Steve sent me a P30+ raw file and I'm seeing the same thing as others--it's not recognized in ACR 4.1.

Sorry to say, there is a different level of support for some + backs versus others (in this case P45+ vs. P30+)...

Thanks Steve--I couldn't figure out the discrepancy between what I'd been reading and my own experience with the P45+ raw files.

Best regards,
Brad

Same here: in Bridge/PS CS 3/ACR 4.1/Lightroom, it will only see the small thumbnails from my P30+ files.  So if it's reading Brad's P45+ files fine, it must not support all the Plus backs (or at least, the P30+) yet.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124365\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[stevekhart]

Thanks for trying Brad, that's useful to know.  C1 it is then!

Steve sent me a P30+ raw file and I'm seeing the same thing as others--it's not recognized in ACR 4.1.

Sorry to say, there is a different level of support for some + backs versus others (in this case P45+ vs. P30+)...

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124417\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[KAP]

IS lenses IF used with a GYRO will induce vertigo - it is one or the other (for most people)

IS/VR  is the Volkswagen compared to the Ferrari.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124391\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've used a a gyro with IS lenses with no problem.

Kevin.

[KAP]

Do stabilised lenses eg. Canon deal with the vibration ?

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124368\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I use a 70-200mm L IS Canon lens, you often see it sought of lock on the subject. I wouldn't get to concerned about the vibes in a helicopter, a decent shutter speed does the trick mostly.
That I find is the problem with 35mm based systems you need to stop down more to get the lens to perform. When I shot MF film, I would happily shoot wide open if I needed to. MF I always shot at 100 iso, now with the 1DsmkII I find I'm using 400iso a lot of the time.

Kevin.

[KAP]

which difference between the ks4 and the ks6? is there any secondhand market for gyros?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124327\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Bigger heavier more effective the higher the number. I use the biggest they make, I can't see how you would ever have to much. For video or movie work they have a special mount with gyros on each axis, it takes half a day to rig the Helicopter with these. I've got a 5x4 arriving soon, I'll ue the gyro on that all the time for aerials.

Kevin.

[johndk]

I hadn't heard that LR 1.1 won't handle Phase + files.  Has this been specifically confirmed by Adobe?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124203\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi there.


I have a P45+, and just downloaded the update for Lightroom v1.1  and at least over here, it still doesn´t read the P45+ files.  Sadly.


John

[bradleygibson]

Here is an update on what I've found so far with + support and Adobe Camera Raw.

There has been some confusion around whether or not + files work in ACR, as some have reported success (myself included, with some files), while most are reporting ACR does not recognize these files.  It turns out that the culprit seems to be in the way these files are written.

Phase raw files are based on a standard which supports two different ways of packaging the information, one known as 'big-endian' and the other 'little-endian'.  I won't bore anyone with the geeky details but so far I am seeing 100% correlation between big-endian P45+ files and success using ACR and little-endian P45+ files and failure using ACR.

(It gets a bit more technical from here on...)

I have received P45+ files from three different sources (as I do not yet have one myself), and the only files which develop properly in PSCS3 ACR 4.1 and LR 1.1 are, in fact big-endian (Motorola byte order) P45+ files.

I have little-endian (Intel byte order) P45+ files which the providers were careful to point out were shot to a CF card in the back itself.

This tells me that the big-endian TIFF files must have been shot tethered, as I would assume that all P45+ backs would write using the same byte order.

I cannot assume that ALL big-endian P45+ files will work, nor can I assume that all little-endian P45+ won't--I simply don't have enough files.  I would need to take a look at P45+ files that have been shot  tethered to a Mac (PowerPC and Intel) and to a PC to see what the correlation is to byte order and compatibility with the current version of ACR.

If I could find a counter example (eg. a big-endian file that ACR does NOT recognize or a little-endian file that ACR DOES recognize) I may be able to devise a simple patch to allow these files to work until a version of ACR comes out with proper support for these files.

Please let me know if you have the means to provide these files.  You can recognize a big-endian file because the first byte value of the file will be 77 (4D.H) and a little-endian file's first byte will be 73 (49.H).

And keep your fingers crossed that ACR 4.2 will come out soon and support these files--I think we'd all much rather be out shooting than reading posts like this one, fighting to keep our workflows...  (I know I would.)

I hope that helps shed a little light on this mystery of some + files working with ACR and others not.

Best regards,
Brad

[eronald]

Bradley, are these Tiff-structured files ?

Edmund

Here is an update on what I've found so far with + support and Adobe Camera Raw.

There has been some confusion around whether or not + files work in ACR, as some have reported success (myself included, with some files), while most are reporting ACR does not recognize these files.  It turns out that the culprit seems to be in the way these files are written.

Phase raw files are based on a standard which supports two different ways of packaging the information, one known as 'big-endian' and the other 'little-endian'.  I won't bore anyone with the geeky details but so far I am seeing 100% correlation between big-endian P45+ files and success using ACR and little-endian P45+ files and failure using ACR.

(It gets a bit more technical from here on...)

I have received P45+ files from three different sources (as I do not yet have one myself), and the only files which develop properly in PSCS3 ACR 4.1 and LR 1.1 are, in fact big-endian (Motorola byte order) P45+ files.

I have little-endian (Intel byte order) P45+ files which the providers were careful to point out were shot to a CF card in the back itself.

This tells me that the big-endian TIFF files must have been shot tethered, as I would assume that all P45+ backs would write using the same byte order.

I cannot assume that ALL big-endian P45+ files will work, nor can I assume that all little-endian P45+ won't--I simply don't have enough files.  I would need to take a look at P45+ files that have been shot  tethered to a Mac (PowerPC and Intel) and to a PC to see what the correlation is to byte order and compatibility with the current version of ACR.

If I could find a counter example (eg. a big-endian file that ACR does NOT recognize or a little-endian file that ACR DOES recognize) I may be able to devise a simple patch to allow these files to work until a version of ACR comes out with proper support for these files.

Please let me know if you have the means to provide these files.  You can recognize a big-endian file because the first byte value of the file will be 77 (4D.H) and a little-endian file's first byte will be 73 (49.H).

And keep your fingers crossed that ACR 4.2 will come out soon and support these files--I think we'd all much rather be out shooting than reading posts like this one, fighting to keep our workflows...  (I know I would.)

I hope that helps shed a little light on this mystery of some + files working with ACR and others not.

Best regards,
Brad
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[Harris Edelman]

You can recognize a big-endian file because the first byte value of the file will be 77 (4D.H) and a little-endian file's first byte will be 73 (49.H).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135717\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Less ambiguously, the first two bytes of a big-endian (so-called "Motorola architecture") TIFF are 0x4d4d (or "MM" in ASCII), and of a little-endian ("Intel architecture") TIFF, 0x4949 ("II").

The simplest immediate workaround would, indeed, be to rewrite the little-endian files to big-endian ones.  This could be easily generalized, for batch processing, with a shell script that invoked tiffcp with the -B and/or -f options. The proviso is that Phase One private tags might cause tiffcp to fail.

I apologize that I can't quickly test this--I'm momentarily without Mac access, working on a bunch of semi-ancient Suns for the next week or so.

Thanks, Brad, for making the discovery!


-H.

[godtfred]

(I bought Fotostation, what a mess)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124116\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I bought Fotostation as well, and can only agree with you. Advice to all who consider it is: stay away unless you are in newspaper publishing/media and have to use it for your (jeeez) prebaked .jpg images. RAW is out of the question with Fotostation as it is now.

Also:

Tried Aperture, better than Lightroom on many points, but does not eat my filetypes (specifically .dng's exported from flexcolor). Lightroom is the favourite in my book so far, but I loose my lovely DAC functions if I go that route, and am thus far forced to save both .fff and .dng raw files for a nice quick workflow with all software functions intact if I should need them.

If you have CS3, you could always stick with Bridge, its good enough if you know how to make scripts and actions, as well as keep a tidy filestructure on you harddrive.

[bradleygibson]

Bradley, are these Tiff-structured files ?

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135723\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi, Edmund,

Yes, they are.  I believe they may be TIFF/EP, but I haven't verified this.

--

Harris,

I had a similar thought, but was unaware of what utilities might do this.  Thank you for the suggestion!

Mac OS X does not appear to have tiffcp, but does have tiffutil.  

I think there's a small chance that patching could provide a short-term solution.  In terms of converting endianness (is that even a word?), you are right--any Phase One private tags are going to rain on that parade.

I'll be sure to let you know if I manage to find any sort of a workaround for this.

Thanks again for the tip!  We just might find a solution after all.

Kind regards,
Brad

[pss]

discussion like this is what made me become a photographer in the first place:)

all this is so way over my head....i am really hoping for LR1.2 soon....there are some issues 9other then phase compatibility) that need to be resolved.......

and how come bridge has the loupe and LR does not?