Topic: RAW support for backs (Read 16924 times)

KAP · « **on:** June 21, 2007, 03:48:35 am »

I'm using a 1DsmkII and Aperure at present. I use Aperture mostly for it' DAM capabilities, it supports Canon RAW files. I'm feeling the need for something like a P30+ but I don't know which if any DAM software supports a P30 or the Hasselblad equiv RAW files. I like Apertures vault system and general usability so I'm a bit shy about switching my workflow.
What are my choices for DAM and RAW support, I know the Leaf is Aperture supported but I here so many problems with the Leaf.
Any ideas,

Kevin.

Dustbak · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2007, 05:59:32 am »

Quote

I'm using a 1DsmkII and Aperure at present. I use Aperture mostly for it' DAM capabilities, it supports Canon RAW files. I'm feeling the need for something like a P30+ but I don't know which if any DAM software supports a P30 or the Hasselblad equiv RAW files. I like Apertures vault system and general usability so I'm a bit shy about switching my workflow.
What are my choices for DAM and RAW support, I know the Leaf is Aperture supported but I here so many problems with the Leaf.
Any ideas,

Kevin.
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Yes, Leaf has had a lot of problems with their software. It still isn't perfect. On the other hand there are a number of possibilities to use Leaf files, ACR, PSCS3, Lightroom, Raw Developer (my personal favorite). Besides these they have now LC11 which is still slow but works well. RD will get a tethered solution for Leaf is the rumour.

These are all the raw developers I have tried over the last couple of years. I know there are some others as well but these I have not (yet) tried.

Personally I find the software thing a non-issue currently. Which doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.

KAP · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2007, 06:28:03 am »

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Yes, Leaf has had a lot of problems with their software. It still isn't perfect. On the other hand there are a number of possibilities to use Leaf files, ACR, PSCS3, Lightroom, Raw Developer (my personal favorite). Besides these they have now LC11 which is still slow but works well. RD will get a tethered solution for Leaf is the rumour.

These are all the raw developers I have tried over the last couple of years. I know there are some others as well but these I have not (yet) tried.

Personally I find the software thing a non-issue currently. Which doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.
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It's the DAM side of things I'm most interested in, I need to archive the raws like I do in Aperture and search and find via keywords, title or date. There's lots of stuff that will develope a RAW from a Phaseone to produce a tiff or jpg. I spend a lot of my time doing library searches, Aperture has been a God send for this. Is there anything I can do this with a Phaseone or Imacon/Hasselblad?
A Phaseone looks favourite because of it's reliability record.
Thanks,

Kevin.

Dustbak · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2007, 07:23:15 am »

Quote

It's the DAM side of things I'm most interested in, I need to archive the raws like I do in Aperture and search and find via keywords, title or date. There's lots of stuff that will develope a RAW from a Phaseone to produce a tiff or jpg. I spend a lot of my time doing library searches, Aperture has been a God send for this. Is there anything I can do this with a Phaseone or Imacon/Hasselblad?
A Phaseone looks favourite because of it's reliability record.
Thanks,

Kevin.
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Not sure what DAM means but I guess something like Digital Archive Manager?? I use Lightroom for this. Not perfect but for my use at the moment adequate with some workarounds.

I have tried several other applications, like Extensis Portfolio Server and have had a look at Fotostation Server. Sofar I have not found anything that is really perfect.

I would like to have something that can build an archive from files stored on a network drive. Have the thumbs locally and files over TCP/IP connection. Besides that I also would like to make collections that are immediately posted in a web environment with access control. Currently I have not found anything mainstream (out of the box) that can do just that.

My company (which I sold some 10 years ago) made the proto for a system that is currently in use by a photo agency (Hollandse Hoogte), this comes close but it doesn't support RAW (at least our version didn't) and is too large scale for my needs. Besides custom built stuff I have not found anything.

Anyone?

KAP · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2007, 07:53:09 am »

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Not sure what DAM means but I guess something like Digital Archive Manager?? I use Lightroom for this. Not perfect but for my use at the moment adequate with some workarounds.

I have tried several other applications, like Extensis Portfolio Server and have had a look at Photostation Server. Sofar I have not found anything that is really perfect.

I would like to have something that can build an archive from files stored on a network drive. Have the thumbs locally and files over TCP/IP connection. Besides that I also would like to make collections that are immediately posted in a web environment with access control. Currently I have not found anything mainstream (out of the box) that can do just that.

My company (which I sold some 10 years ago) made the proto for a system that is currently in use by a photo agency (Hollandse Hoogte), this comes close to it but it doesn't support RAW (at least our version didn't) and is too large scale for my needs. Besides custom built stuff I have not find anything.

Anyone?
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That's about it. I've tried lots and bought a few (I bought Fotostation, what a mess), Aperture hits most of my nails on the head, there is lots of room for improvement.
Aperture supports Leaf but not Phaseone, does Lightroom support Phaseone RAW files?
Aperture has saved me hours of work, I'm not wanting to give all that up, saving the RAWs as 16bit tiff and importing into Aperture is an option but a slow and space hogging one.

Kevin.

Dustbak · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2007, 10:16:27 am »

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That's about it. I've tried lots and bought a few (I bought Fotostation, what a mess), Aperture hits most of my nails on the head, there is lots of room for improvement.
Aperture supports Leaf but not Phaseone, does Lightroom support Phaseone RAW files?
Aperture has saved me hours of work, I'm not wanting to give all that up, saving the RAWs as 16bit tiff and importing into Aperture is an option but a slow and space hogging one.

Kevin.
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Not sure Lightroom supports PhaseOne Raw files. I believe it does the P30 but not the +'s files, again not sure. However Lightroom does get its Raw handling capabilities from ACR so whenever that has support for it, Lightroom will have so as well. I am quite sure Adobe will continue to support Phase files (even when I have no inside information in Adobe).

Now, I remember the Fotostation server app. was called FotoWeb. In theory it could do a lot but it was extremely expensive and did not give me the feeling it would be something I could work with.

bradleygibson · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2007, 10:20:40 am »

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Not sure what DAM means
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Digital Asset Management

Kevin,

You can download and try Lightroom free for 30 days. Lightroom does support raw files from a number of digital backs (including Phase P45). The upcoming 1.1 update will apparently handlle the Phase + series backs (based on the assumption it will incorporate Adobe Camera Raw 4.1, which processes + files).

I own both Aperture and Lightroom and do prefer LR, although I do not do as much querying as it sounds like you do. Lightroom has similar DAM querying and flltering capabilities. It's worth taking a look at.

Brad

Update #2 - ACR 4.1 works with P45+ files, but not with P30+ raw files. No idea about other + backs. If this is an issue for you, it is probably best to test your back's raw files with ACR first. Hope that helps.

Dustbak · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2007, 10:23:49 am »

Thanks for the clarification for DAM Brad

That makes sense.

RicAgu · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:58:37 am »

Lightroom does support but with some issues. I use it for my Canon files but for the Phase I use C1 @ the moment, Every now and then I use it but it ends up screwing up a file. Sometimes a line down the middle, sometimes a line off to the side halfway through just weird stuff all the time with Phase Files.

I had a similar problem with Raw Developer, emailed Brian and he gave me an FTP sit to load up some phase files. I don't think anyone at Adobe is willing to do that and get back to you. They are such the 800lb gorilla that we don't expect that kind of support. But as Pro consumers we should expect some knd of pro email support where are questions are answered. Have it Pro login only or some one kind of access where you can filter the audience.

I think it would be amazingly beneficial for Adobe to have Pro's upload countless files from ever back manufacturer with a description of the problem.

As far as backs go. Leaf has stepped up to the plate with LC11 and it really is processing the files well and not crashing or giving me error messages. PhaseOne is bullet proof no issues there, unless you use RD or LR you may expereince some hiccups.

Hassy is also bullet proof with Flexcolor and there are few little software issues but it is more the learning curve. Unless you are using older backs most of the new 22,31,39mp backs are great. I have not personally used the 31mp Hassy, but the 22 and 39 work great!

pss · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2007, 12:34:42 pm »

LR supports phase raw files....not the + files yet....ACR/bridge/PS supports phase files....

i am having problems with my 800iso files in LR, it does not read the back calibration files correctly, so i get a line right through the frame (2 seperate halves) very annoying....it does not show at 100....adobe is working on it....i was told yesterday but thomas knoll yesteerday that this issue will be solved in ACR 4.2....i heard elsewhere that 4.2 will also support P+ files....phase is now(finally) open with adobe and adobe is really making an efford....

i looooove LR, wish i would like aperture (i have always been all apple), but there are some things that just don't seem right and the upgrading seems slow....that and the fact that they don't provide support for Dbacks....it seems like this is the only apple app that is a little behind....

LR is great and i am positive that the issues will be resolved within the next couple of months....it is by far the best workflow solution out there.....saves me so much time it is a joke....

shooting tethered with C1 into LR works like a charm....i use LR 95% and C1 the rest...really only for processing the high iso files for final output....

william · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2007, 01:29:44 pm »

I hadn't heard that LR 1.1 won't handle Phase + files. Has this been specifically confirmed by Adobe?

Quote

but even the upcoming 1.1 update will apparently not handlle the Phase + series backs.

Brad
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KAP · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2007, 02:41:15 pm »

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I hadn't heard that LR 1.1 won't handle Phase + files. Has this been specifically confirmed by Adobe?
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Thanks everyone, it looks like I will need to go the lightroom route if I want to use the Phaseone. I wish Apple would pull their finger out on Aperture and supported formats. I'm well into Aperture's workflow and it works fantasticaly for me. Leaf would be the obvious choice, but you hear so many bad stories, I can't afford the time for lock outs, I'm often in a helicopter and time is money.

Kevin.

Dustbak · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2007, 03:12:23 pm »

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Thanks everyone, it looks like I will need to go the lightroom route if I want to use the Phaseone. I wish Apple would pull their finger out on Aperture and supported formats. I'm well into Aperture's workflow and it works fantasticaly for me. Leaf would be the obvious choice, but you hear so many bad stories, I can't afford the time for lock outs, I'm often in a helicopter and time is money.

Kevin.
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Maybe you should try the Leaf as well. I have owned several the last couple of years. I have never experienced real problems, these backs have always been very stable. (not talking software)

Anyway. If the Phase suits you most. By all means go for it (I almost bought one). Just try the Leaf as well if you get the chance. Actually test as many as you can. All IMHO of course.

My first entrance into the world of MFDB's were second hand backs, so I had no options and just had to make work what I bought

Buying my first back new I would definitely see for myself how it performs, actually I have the tendency to just try everything myself

snickgrr · « **Reply #13 on:** June 21, 2007, 03:20:59 pm »

Quote from: KAP,Jun 21 2007, 10:41 AM

Thanks everyone, it looks like I will need to go the lightroom route if I want to use the Phaseone. I wish Apple would pull their finger out on Aperture and supported formats. I'm well into Aperture's workflow and it works fantasticaly for me. Leaf would be the obvious choice, but you hear so many bad stories, I can't afford the time for lock outs, I'm often in a helicopter and time is money.

Kevin,
Are you planning on using any type of gyro stabilizers with the medium format in your helicopter work?

yaya · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2007, 03:40:33 pm »

FWIW, I have several respectable customers from both commercial and public/ government sectors who use Leaf backs on air-planes and helicopters with no such "so many bad stories" at all.

Actually, I have several ones who DON'T use it on helicopters and also don't have any "bad stories" to tell...

Internet, for most part is a fantastic place for sharing experiences and advice, but I would not suggest basing one's purchase decision or bad stories heard on the internet...this does not do justice to the product nor to the decision maker.

Kevin, please accept it as a constructive feedback not as patronising, really. Any query or need for further info, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Good luck and welcome into the world of MF digital.

Yair

bradleygibson · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2007, 04:22:50 pm »

My bad--sorry for the misinformation (from reading postings online).

I have Adobe Camera Raw 4.1 (for PSCS3) and it does seem to be reading P45+ raw files just fine.

I read that Lightroom 1.1 will be incorporating ACR1.1's technology, if that is true, LR 1.1 should work with + files as well.

I'll edit my original posting so as not to spread incorrect information.

Thanks William (I'll test before I post next time ),
Brad

Quote

I hadn't heard that LR 1.1 won't handle Phase + files. Has this been specifically confirmed by Adobe?
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KAP · « **Reply #16 on:** June 22, 2007, 02:30:33 am »

Quote from: snickgrr,Jun 21 2007, 08:20 PM

Quote from: KAP,Jun 21 2007, 10:41 AM
Thanks everyone, it looks like I will need to go the lightroom route if I want to use the Phaseone. I wish Apple would pull their finger out on Aperture and supported formats. I'm well into Aperture's workflow and it works fantasticaly for me. Leaf would be the obvious choice, but you hear so many bad stories, I can't afford the time for lock outs, I'm often in a helicopter and time is money.

Kevin,
Are you planning on using any type of gyro stabilizers with the medium format in your helicopter work?
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Yes I do have a gyro, I only use it when light is getting low, it makes getting portrait shots difficult being so heavy to turn on the side. Do you se a problem with MF backs and a gyro?

Kevin.

Camdavidson · « **Reply #17 on:** June 22, 2007, 06:14:41 am »

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FWIW, I have several respectable customers from both commercial and public/ government sectors who use Leaf backs on air-planes and helicopters with no such "so many bad stories" at all.

Actually, I have several ones who DON'T use it on helicopters and also don't have any "bad stories" to tell...

Internet, for most part is a fantastic place for sharing experiences and advice, but I would not suggest basing one's purchase decision or bad stories heard on the internet...this does not do justice to the product nor to the decision maker.

Kevin, please accept it as a constructive feedback not as patronising, really. Any query or need for further info, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Good luck and welcome into the world of MF digital.

Yair
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I shoot aerials all the time. I've used a P30 (with the Mamiya 645 ADD II system) in the air and always use a Gyro - either a KS-4 or KS-6.

No problems. Remember, a turbine helicopter is a thousand pieces of metal trying to shake itself apart. For me, a gyro is essential. I've used one for all of my career and can not imagine trying to shoot an aerial without one.

Two weeks ago, I shot an aerial story in New England on MF and had to slow down quite a bit. It made me pace myself much differently than with the Canon kit. Yes, I got stellar files- - I lost a few frames due to the back not clearing the buffer. Something you need to be aware of - not a deal breaker but you should think about it when shooting quickly.

I've done some testing for Apple with Aperture, while they won't say what cameras they do or do not plan to support in Aperture, they have said that the request for Phase support is pretty strong. (I asked about it for myself) The new camera support comes through upgrades to the OS. Earlier this week, the new update included support for the Leica M8, which was needed. I expect that Apple will support the Phase back within a few months.

Capture One is a stellar program, you could always process in Capture One or Brian Griffith's incredible - RAW DEVELOPER or even Lightroom - and then do your archive work in Aperture if you choose. Yair knows everybody and I remember him telling me about quite a few shooters shooting air-to-air or aerials with the Leaf back. I think MF digital is fine in the air as long as you are not shooting super fast.

rainer_v · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2007, 06:29:01 am »

very interesting.
with which shutter speeds you can work with a gyro?
i did several aerial shootings with helicopter without gyro, never had any problem but ofcourse ineeded shutter speeds of 1/500 which means good weather and then f4 - f 5,6. have shot as well with contax 645 and sinar m. the resolution of mf digital aerials is amazing.

Camdavidson · « **Reply #19 on:** June 22, 2007, 06:41:07 am »

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very interesting.
with which shutter speeds you can work with a gyro?
i did several aerial shootings with helicopter without gyro, never had any problem but ofcourse ineeded shutter speeds of 1/500 which means good weather and then f4 - f 5,6. have shot as well with contax 645 and sinar m. the resolution of mf digital aerials is amazing.
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I shoot the lowest ISO I can use, often in the 125th/250th range - but I am shooting close to the ground and often subjects that are moving. I shoot almost always wide-open or close to it.

Author Topic: RAW support for backs (Read 16924 times)

yaya