Epson 3800 occasional use

[geigerc0unter]

I have an Epson R200, which prints really well but goes through masses of ink. I use it only occasionally and it would seem that everytime i turn it on I have to change all of the inks, its crazy. I want to buy an Epson 3800, and I understand it has a much more sophisticated ink system, though still comparatively small ink tanks. Am I going to have the same problem with this printer. Is it just crazy to buy a printer like this for occasional use? I might use it intensively for a week and then not for a couple of months. Does anyone have this printer and use it like this? Perhaps it is better for me to just have my images printed commercially. Can anyone advise. Thanks, Andrew

[madmanchan]

It does sound like you're going to be using it pretty infrequently. The main issue is that at the rate that you use it, some of the 3800's less-used carts (e.g., Cyan) might be there for years before you use it all up. Probably not advisable.

My recommendation is that you pick a good online lab and get your prints done that way. Less maintenance to worry about. Try www.whcc.com -- high quality, good service, reasonable prices, and fast turnaround.

[NikosR]

Indeed you have to carefully think if you can justify a purchase like this.

Having said that, I have to point out that I have been using my Epson 3800 very infrequently due to circumstances beyond my control. I have had no clogging since I got the printer (back in fall). Only yesterday I switched on the printer after 1.5 months of inactivity. Printed perfectly without having to go through any manual cleaning routine. The printer has also repeatedly printed perfectly previously after periods of incativity of more than 2 weeks.

[D White]

I use my Epson 7800 sporadically with a month or so between print batches. I have found that if I have a de-humidifier set at 30% then I have no clogs after start up and a test pattern. I had more problems at higher humidity levels.

[geigerc0unter]

I use my Epson 7800 sporadically with a month or so between print batches. I have found that if I have a de-humidifier set at 30% then I have no clogs after start up and a test pattern. I had more problems at higher humidity levels.
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Which country do you use the printer in and what level of humidity have you been dealing with. I am in London just now, but will be relocating to Shanghai, and so climate may be an issue. THose ink tanks are expensive, and I dont want to be throwing them away as I have to do with the ink tanks for the R200!

THanks

[Ken Doo]

I use my Epson 7800 sporadically with a month or so between print batches. I have found that if I have a de-humidifier set at 30% then I have no clogs after start up and a test pattern. I had more problems at higher humidity levels.
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A DE-humidifyer?  When I spoke to Epson's service department---I was told they never get "clogged head" calls from states in humid environments like Florida.  I live on the CA central coast----and was running a dehumidifyer (not really needed) and after talking with Epson Professional, have removed my dehumidifyer out of the studio.

No clogged heads since.  It seems to me that it would be better to run a humidifier in the room....

[digitaldog]

I live in New Mexico, it's bone dry. Never a clog and I might go a month or more between prints.

I still check but I'm getting to the point I may not anymore.

[Dale_Cotton]

This clogging issue is bizarre. Here's another data point to ponder.

I have an Epson 4000 and have had no end of massive clogging problems even though I use it very nearly every day. The clogs almost always occur when it runs its automatic self-clean cycle every sixth day, and almost never between those events. I have a furnace humidifier and have been keeping the house at 60% rel, which should be pretty close to ideal, esp. since the manual says 40 to 60% is best.

I tried a trick I'd read on-line of putting a tray of water and sponge inside the paper path cover near the print head when not in use. No joy. Then for the past month or so there has been unusual weather where I live such that the temperature has been comfortable for leaving the furnace/AC off and windows open but the humidity was 'way high. No clogs. Anything over 65% on the hygrometer I have seems to do the trick.  

Not sure we can generalize across ink sets and nozzle bores, let alone all the other variables in play.

[booksmartstudio]

I have not had many problems with mine, I'm in Rochester, New York (humid summers, dry cold winters)

If you need to clean the heads it is easy and you can get the solution Epson used online.

Fix your own printer.com

[D White]

Regarding my earlier post on humidity levels with my 7800, I definitely have had much better results with LOW humidity with a de-humidafier set at 30%. I again just used my unit after a month sitting idle with no clogs. Previously, I had allowed humidity to reach 60%+ and had a hell of a time with clogging and repeated cleaning cycles. Even after just a few hours the clogs would be seriously back. They would even show up part way through print runs.

I will continue with the low humidity until I prove myself wrong. Right now I am happy as it is a great printer when the clog issue is gone.

[John R Smith]

Well

both things can't be true. Either the Epson pigment-ink printers are affected by ambient humidity, or they are not. And scientific logic would suggest that they could only be adversely affected by low humidity, because the inks are water-based. Therefore high humidity should prevent clogging and drying out of the print heads, at least to some extent. Hence the sponge urban myth.

John

[neil snape]

Well

both things can't be true. Either the Epson pigment-ink printers are affected by ambient humidity, or they are not. And scientific logic would suggest that they could only be adversely affected by low humidity, because the inks are water-based. Therefore high humidity should prevent clogging and drying out of the print heads, at least to some extent. Hence the sponge urban myth.

John
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There is an operating range that indicates more risk in both directions of humidity. When it's too humid you can have gumming as the ink vehicule cannot evaporate on the outsides of the nozzles fast enough. Too much or too little only increases risks, which is not to say that some or many users will not experience any problems even at the extremes.

[John R Smith]

Neil

that does indeed sound feasible. In which case I am doomed, because here in my old Cornish cottage the humidity almost never drops below 60%, and is often over 70% in the summer. We shall see what happens . . .

John

[Mark D Segal]

This clogging issue is bizarre. Here's another data point to ponder.

I have an Epson 4000 and have had no end of massive clogging problems even though I use it very nearly every day. The clogs almost always occur when it runs its automatic self-clean cycle every sixth day, and almost never between those events. I have a furnace humidifier and have been keeping the house at 60% rel, which should be pretty close to ideal, esp. since the manual says 40 to 60% is best.

I tried a trick I'd read on-line of putting a tray of water and sponge inside the paper path cover near the print head when not in use. No joy. Then for the past month or so there has been unusual weather where I live such that the temperature has been comfortable for leaving the furnace/AC off and windows open but the humidity was 'way high. No clogs. Anything over 65% on the hygrometer I have seems to do the trick. 

Not sure we can generalize across ink sets and nozzle bores, let alone all the other variables in play.
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Dale, I'm just one model ahead - the 4800 - and sleuthing this clogging business has become a bit if a hobby. I've looked at all kinds of possible causes over time, discussed it with Epson ad nauseum - I must say they are VERY helpful - and I have come to the conclusion it boils down to usage over time.

I owned a 4000 from the beginning of that model's life, and up-graded to the 4800 in November 2005. I've written articles about their ink consumption performance and clogging for this website.

When a new Epson printer starts life, it works well for months. Then sporadic clogging breaks out. Then it gets worse. It got so bad on my 4800 that it needed a service call. The people who service them here in Toronto did a thorough cleaning from the inside-out (Power Clean plus some other tidying-up around the printhed area) and for the next four months or so it was absolutely problem-free regardless of humidity and regardless of intervals between print jobs.

Then episodes of clogged nozzles starting happening every time the machine did a self-cleaning on start-up. It took lots of ink to free them up. I re-discussed with Epson. What came out of that I think is the bottom line: as one uses these machines gunk accumulates and those small cleaning cycles can trigger clogs. They recommended to me that it is necessary to do a Power Clean every three months. It uses about 100ml of ink, but then I wouldn't have this succession of repeated clogs that have - over the past couple of months - cost me more than the Power Clean would cost. I'll be doing the Power Clean soon, and I expect from that I'll be OK for another few months. That just needs to be added-in to the cost of use.

[Dale_Cotton]

Mark: it would indeed be nice if a power clean would solve the clogging problem, even at $60 CDN a go, but I tried that last year, and it didn't buy me more than a week or two of clog-freedom.

- which is not to take away from your thesis that this may be just the ticket for many other Epson owners.

I'll be doing the Power Clean soon, and I expect from that I'll be OK for another few months.

But if it doesn't - as my single experience suggests might be possible - then it might be that a combination of maintenance cleaning plus power cleaning will both be necessary for your machine. Or perhaps a power clean every three months and a maintenance visit every year.

The situation seems to be exceedingly complex. Here are some of my own thoughts about your hobby, for whatever they're worth:

1) the clogging issue crosses lines between multiple models and families of models of Epson pigment printers. Nozzle diameter changes, any capping station design changes, and any firmware cleaning cycle changes are a few examples of factors that might mean that solutions that work for one family of printer models might not work on another.

2) there are multiple ink sets involved. For example: did the reformulation of Ultrachrome that yielded K3 involve any change in the solvent(s) or pigment fineness or particulate viscosity? (Based on the fact that clogging complaints are just as rampant now as five years ago, I'd say the answer is either no or not materially.)

3) there is the issue of multiple causation. One person's printer may have a capping station seal failure; another person's may be suffering from low humidity; another person's may be suffering from dried ink build-up in any of a number of locations, including the wiper blades. Now we have a couple reports that indicate that low humidity has been a solution, not a problem - almost suggesting that Epson's recommendation of 40% to 60% rel. humidity is the problem range, not the target range ... at least for some individual units.

discussed it with Epson ad nauseum - I must say they are VERY helpful

Yes: I had an excellent experience with Epson Canada support, too, the one time I dealt with them. Apparently, a very different org. from Epson USA. ;)

When a new Epson printer starts life, it works well for months. Then sporadic clogging breaks out. Then it gets worse.

Matches my experience and has implications for geigerc0unter, the original poster:

I want to buy an Epson 3800... Is it just crazy to buy a printer like this for occasional use?

A number of 3800 owners have reported infrequent or no-clog bliss, but this has to be tempered with what Mark has pointed out about the problem of clogging increasing with the passage of time. OTOH, your relocating to Shanghai, given the anecdotal report that Epson (USA?) gets few problem reports in high humidity areas, may in fact imply that you'll be in clog-free heaven there, whether you stick with your R200 or go for a 3800. The bottom line seems to be that buying any higher-end Epson printer is pretty much a crap shoot since the switch to pigment inks and narrow bore nozzles. Canon and HP pigment printer owners are reporting clog-freeness, but that may have to be tempered with Mark's point about clogging being time-variant.

[Mark D Segal]

Mark: it would indeed be nice if a power clean would solve the clogging problem, even at $60 CDN a go, but I tried that last year, and it didn't buy me more than a week or two of clog-freedom.

- which is not to take away from your thesis that this may be just the ticket for many other Epson owners.
But if it doesn't - as my single experience suggests might be possible - then it might be that a combination of maintenance cleaning plus power cleaning will both be necessary for your machine. Or perhaps a power clean every three months and a maintenance visit every year.

The situation seems to be exceedingly complex. Here are some of my own thoughts about your hobby, for whatever they're worth:

1) the clogging issue crosses lines between multiple models and families of models of Epson pigment printers. Nozzle diameter changes, any capping station design changes, and any firmware cleaning cycle changes are a few examples of factors that might mean that solutions that work for one family of printer models might not work on another.

2) there are multiple ink sets involved. For example: did the reformulation of Ultrachrome that yielded K3 involve any change in the solvent(s) or pigment fineness or particulate viscosity? (Based on the fact that clogging complaints are just as rampant now as five years ago, I'd say the answer is either no or not materially.)

3) there is the issue of multiple causation. One person's printer may have a capping station seal failure; another person's may be suffering from low humidity; another person's may be suffering from dried ink build-up in any of a number of locations, including the wiper blades. Now we have a couple reports that indicate that low humidity has been a solution, not a problem - almost suggesting that Epson's recommendation of 40% to 60% rel. humidity is the problem range, not the target range ... at least for some individual units.
Yes: I had an excellent experience with Epson Canada support, too, the one time I dealt with them. Apparently, a very different org. from Epson USA.
Matches my experience and has implications for geigerc0unter, the original poster:
A number of 3800 owners have reported infrequent or no-clog bliss, but this has to be tempered with what Mark has pointed out about the problem of clogging increasing with the passage of time. OTOH, your relocating to Shanghai, given the anecdotal report that Epson (USA?) gets few problem reports in high humidity areas, may in fact imply that you'll be in clog-free heaven there, whether you stick with your R200 or go for a 3800. The bottom line seems to be that buying any higher-end Epson printer is pretty much a crap shoot since the switch to pigment inks and narrow bore nozzles. Canon and HP pigment printer owners are reporting clog-freeness, but that may have to be tempered with Mark's point about clogging being time-variant.
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Dale, Epson Canada no longer repairs their machines. They have almost closed-up their Canadian operations and all the repair work is done by contractors - who know their stuff. Epson USA determines what happens with Epson products in Canada, we are largely supported from Epson USA and from my experience plus others I've read or heard about, their support is very good.

On the specifics of the clogging issues - I agree with you - it is perplexing and given the number of different factors that may be relevant, experience can be highly variable between models - if only because it is highly variable within models! Ugh.

I think the Canon IPF5000 has been on the market long enough that if clogging problems were going to emerge, we would probably be seeing reports by now. I don't know this printer - I cancelled my order for it when other troublesome issues were reported - but I understand it is designed to by-pass blocked nozzles, which raises a question about whether the blocked nozzles get cleaned, or just accumulate until the head becomes useless. I don't know enough about this printer to surmise. (Someone who does should advise.) That said, the Canon and HP technologies are completely different from Epson's, so their lack of clogging thus far could be due to either their relative newness, or technological differences that account for one technology being more prone to clogging than another. I think we won't know which for a while.

[GregW]

My 3800 usage patterns are sporadic.  This weekend I printed 30 A4 prints on fine art paper.  The last time I printed was about 6 before.  So far after 7 months of ownership I've found it remarkably trouble free.

BTW I have a hygrometer next to my 3800 and it's normally in the 50-60% range.  I live in central Europe.

[grepmat]

I'm a light to moderate user of my Epson 3800, who tends to work in bursts with pauses of a week to several weeks between use. This printer has been a dream compared to my old 2200.

* No clogs, ever! This was a huge problem on the 2200, and it's such a relief to put it behind me.
* Clearly better color prints.
* Unbelievably better black and white prints.
* Nicely faster.
* Love the 17" print carriage.
* Modest size for its print capacity.
* It finally knows how to center a print properly (vs. the 2200).
* Very easy to use with no problems at all.

I did consider the Canon, but was put off by the size and weight and stuff like the "consumable" print heads that cost the same as the printer itself.

I suppose one day I'll move up to a 24" printer (yes, big prints are addictive), but for now this was the right printer for me.