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Author Topic: Color with latest z3100 firmware  (Read 4949 times)

Charles Gast

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Color with latest z3100 firmware
« on: June 07, 2007, 06:59:59 am »

I installed the latest z3100 firmware then profiled my papers again. I am still seeing the saturated reds the same as before on matte papers. Saturated reds don't look red enough and the saturated yellows aren't either.  I wonder how many times they will release this firmare. As far as color goes I would have skipped this release and the wasted time and material re-profiling and waited for the next release.  I am assuming of course another release is forthcoming. I suppose this latest release may be the best they can do.  The z6100 seems to be their latest offering and they have abandoned the 12 ink system. Maybe 12 inks is too many colors to dial in.
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neil snape

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Color with latest z3100 firmware
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2007, 06:42:20 am »

Quote
I installed the latest z3100 firmware then profiled my papers again. I am still seeing the saturated reds the same as before on matte papers. Saturated reds don't look red enough and the saturated yellows aren't either.  I wonder how many times they will release this firmare. As far as color goes I would have skipped this release and the wasted time and material re-profiling and waited for the next release.  I am assuming of course another release is forthcoming. I suppose this latest release may be the best they can do.  The z6100 seems to be their latest offering and they have abandoned the 12 ink system. Maybe 12 inks is too many colors to dial in.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121571\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The 6100 is a replacement 5500 production printer with similar base technology shared over from the Vivera pigment inks and writing system. Most of the hardware is different. The reason for the standard inkset without added primaries, is for speed as much as the perhaps lesser color gamut requiremnts for that sector.

I have been away so I can't say where the new firmware matter are. The reds were to be improved for thick fine art media, as on the optimised Smooth FA surface the reds were more acceptable for quite some time.
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Christopher

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Color with latest z3100 firmware
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2007, 07:15:05 am »

I wouldn't wait forever. Use the printer as it is and if you use the right profiling sotware than it has very good reds and yellows. It could be that this was the last firmware for quite some time.

I will posts some more stuff next week as soon as I have my test results together.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2007, 07:17:04 am by Christopher »
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Christopher Hauser
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Wayne Fox

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Color with latest z3100 firmware
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2007, 07:35:54 pm »

Quote
I installed the latest z3100 firmware then profiled my papers again. I am still seeing the saturated reds the same as before on matte papers. Saturated reds don't look red enough and the saturated yellows aren't either.  I wonder how many times they will release this firmare. As far as color goes I would have skipped this release and the wasted time and material re-profiling and waited for the next release.  I am assuming of course another release is forthcoming. I suppose this latest release may be the best they can do.  The z6100 seems to be their latest offering and they have abandoned the 12 ink system. Maybe 12 inks is too many colors to dial in.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121571\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I had a demo unit that I was testing.  After profiling the printer with Bill Atkinson's 4096 patch test I was getting OK results on Kodak Prof. Lustre paper, but overall didn't see any significant difference between that and a 9800 profiled the same way on the same paper ... printing the lab test image he has on his site, the the Epson reds were actually better.

I installed the firmware, thinking it might help, but after reprofiling, the solid blacks showed some definite "grain" for lack of a better term, and though the reds improved they still weren't better than the 9800.

I don't know what's going on, but after spending considerable time, I sent the printer back.  I believe the extra inks has everyone all giddy, but I think it's more hype than reality.  If I compare the profiles in Colorthink, both printers exceed the other printers gamut in some colors.  Both deliver good results but to me the Espon still delivers cleaner "micro" detail - probably because the areas of gamut that I actually use the Epson delivers.

I was hoping to find a printer that I could use to switch between photo and matte black.  Fortunately I do very little printing with matte black, so for now I'll keep my 9600 around loaded with matte for those few things I need it for.

Maybe Canon's new 5100 will finally get it right. (I have an ipf5000 gathering dust now for similar reasons to the z3100).
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SeanPuckett

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Color with latest z3100 firmware
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2007, 10:12:53 am »

Charles --

Per my other post, I'm wondering if there's some double-profiling going on in the latest firmware/driver.  There seems to be more than one of us having colour trouble since the upgrade.
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Geoff Wittig

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Color with latest z3100 firmware
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2007, 10:20:50 am »

I guess it depends on what you need. The obscene cost and inconvenience of switching blacks with the big Epson printers drove me crazy. The Z3100 is a vast improvement for black & white printing, which is about half my work. The greens and blues are also visibly better, and are more important for the landscape/nature stuff I print. The Epson reds are a tad better, but I'll take the trade-off. And for us devoted amateurs who don't already own a complete i-one suite, the built in profiling is fabulous.
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Wayne Fox

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Color with latest z3100 firmware
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2007, 05:24:29 pm »

Quote
I guess it depends on what you need. The obscene cost and inconvenience of switching blacks with the big Epson printers drove me crazy. The Z3100 is a vast improvement for black & white printing, which is about half my work. The greens and blues are also visibly better, and are more important for the landscape/nature stuff I print. The Epson reds are a tad better, but I'll take the trade-off. And for us devoted amateurs who don't already own a complete i-one suite, the built in profiling is fabulous.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122035\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Absolutely agree.  I think the z3100 (at least pre-firmware update) delivers good results with the built in profiling (which I did try as well), and I really like that the printer has a process that calibrates each paper you use before you profile it, a challenge for those of us building profiles with Epson and Canon printers.  For those that need to switch from matte to photo black, its a good choice (I believe better than Canon at this point in time).

The built in profiling .. does that really save any money?  Basically, it's a built in Eye One system, so buying a canon or Epson ( or other non equipped printer) and a basic  Eye-One system ... not sure which is less expensive.  At least you then have the calibration system so you aren't dependent on buying an upgrade to your printer with it built in again.

Surprising you feel the greens are better, because that's where I think the z3100 has some problems for me.  I loose fine gradations in the green, the result being a slight loss of detail in green foilage.

When I compare the two profiles, the z3100 has a larger gamut lighter areas of green, but the epson has a much larger gamut in darker areas of green.  I really was surprised at the space of the z3100, because with the extra inks you would think they could beat the epson in almost every color and tone.

Still, a very good printer, and a good choice for those that need to switch between matte and photo black.
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Charles Gast

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Color with latest z3100 firmware
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2007, 09:31:06 pm »

Quote
Charles --

Per my other post, I'm wondering if there's some double-profiling going on in the latest firmware/driver.  There seems to be more than one of us having colour trouble since the upgrade.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122034\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually all I meant to say is that saturated reds - aren't. You can take ink from the carts and mix it on the table and dab it on paper and get high saturation reds. If the drivers rip cant do the same it sucks. Sad but true.  

The only problem the newest software caused is that evertime I turn on my computer now an HP folder window in windows explorer opens so I need to close it.
The new driver has an annoying thing where it always tries to print with an sRGB profile instead of letting the photoshop app. apply the profile. I need to always check that and fix it with each use of the printer. I did not have to do that before and who the h*** is going to use sRGB as a printing profile anyway. Another stupid mistake. Methinks HP's execs are not allowing the engineers sufficient resources ( ie: time&money ) to address this printers shortcomings.

Just dont get me started on the whole APS fiasco. Now thats a color issue in and of itself.
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Mussi_Spectraflow

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Color with latest z3100 firmware
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2007, 09:35:46 pm »

The added inks are really designed to make the Z3100 play in the same league as the K3 inkset. Look at the gamut plots for the Z2100/Z6100 and you can see what the inkset without the RGB enhancers delivers, good but not stellar results compared to to K3. On glossy media I can see no real difference between Epson/HP reds in any realworld images. Over all I prefer the HP gamut on RC media, the greens and blues are much cleaner and with a good profiling package there are no problems in transitions, and good shadow chroma is maintained. I was comparing the same image printed on Epson Premiere art WR canvas, One made with ImagePrint on the 9800, the other with the HP using a custom profile I made. The HP print showed much better blues, as well as slightly More saturated reds.
      For matte paper there will probably always be a specific red hue that the Epson can hit better than the HP. It's also important to take into consideration that the HP inks interact with media different than the K3. A paper that works well with Epson does not mean that it will work as well with HP. Also the inklimiting is more complex on the HP. If your creating a profile for a paper that that differs a fair degree from the cloned HP media type, then you may not see optimal results.
      On another note, I had a chance to work with the new Z6100 last week and have to say that it's a very impressive machine. VERY fast, built like a rock. The head is enormous with two sets of heads for each 2 color set. The paper loading is much better than on the 5500 however it's not quite as easy as the Z3100. Still a very nice printer that is a worthy replacement to the 5000 series.

Julian Mussi
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Julian Mussi
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rdonson

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Color with latest z3100 firmware
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2007, 10:06:42 pm »

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The only problem the newest software caused is that evertime I turn on my computer now an HP folder window in windows explorer opens so I need to close it.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122133\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Man, I'm glad to hear that report.  I thought it was only my computer that happened on.    So much for the thought that this is that last firmware/drivers for a while.  I hope they get it right next time.

Still..... I'm happy with the Z3100.  I've kind of figured that the $1,000 rebate was a payment for being an early tester.  I still think that when they fix all the shortcomings its going to be an awesome printer.
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Regards,
Ron
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