Canon iPF5000 Printheads Now Have a Warranty

[John Hollenberg]

Note that Michael has posted information in the "What's New" section of LL about Canon now offering a new warranty for printheads for iPF5000 (coincidentally, only a couple of weeks after his printhead failed and he asked for a replacement).

However, I am not too impressed so far with this information, based on two points:

1) As a member of the Wiki posted:  "It's interesting that Mr. Reichmann's iPF5000 (PF-01) head died, and Canon replaced it. And then when he suggested that Canon should do something official about the warranty status for these heads, they went right out and made an official statement - that specifically does NOT cover those very heads  "

2) My comments after a quick and dirty analysis (HP calculations need to be confirmed, as they are from memory):  "The warranty actually isn't that impressive. At 4 picoliters per drop, 10 trillion drops is 2.5 liters. We don't know if the cleanings count in this or not. At $600 for a printhead (unless the PF-3 is cheaper), that works out to head cost of 600/2500 = 24 cents per ml of ink. That is a best case scenario, because if you are a relatively low volume printer, you won't print that much in one year, then your warranty is gone. It could turn that your printhead cost will be 2-3 times this much per ml of ink if you don't print high volume and the printhead fails after 13 months. I don't recall the exact numbers, but I believe I figured something like 5-10 cents per ml as the printhead cost for HP z3100, and I think the heads have a much longer expiration date than one year, plus you can buy two heads for something like $100 (6 heads needed for the whole printer). The total head replacement cost for the HP is about $300 for the printer. Note that the warranty applies to the new PF-03 printheads. The PF-01 printheads in the iPF5000 apparently still have no official warranty. Conclusion: Cost advantage HP by a wide margin."

If anyone cares to do the calculation for HP printheads based on cost, warranty, number of ml heads are guaranteed for, etc. and check my calculations, it would be appreciated.

--John

[michael]

John,

Let's be clear that it remains unclear exactly what the policy is with regard to original heads, and, as I mentioned in a private message, I have contacted Canon requesting a clarification.

More here as I find out the full story. No one should jump to any conclusions just yet. Remember, these things are written by lawyers, not human beings. (Just kidding).

Michael

[John Hollenberg]

John,

Let's be clear that it remains unclear exactly what the policy is with regard to original heads, and, as I mentioned in a private message, I have contacted Canon requesting a clarification.

More here as I find out the full story. No one should jump to any conclusions just yet. Remember, these things are written by lawyers, not human beings. (Just kidding).

I agree completely.  I just find it a bit ironic that the written language specifically excludes from the new warranty the very heads that failed.  As far as cost goes, if the price of the heads went down to about $200-300 each they would start to be close to cost competitive with the HP heads.

PS The "not being impressed" referred to not being impressed with Canon, not your reporting (specifically, the actual Canon warranty and the specific omission of the PF-01 from the written warranty).

--John

[mkress65]

Michael -- can you tell us the usage for the printhead before it died?  You don't have to count how many trillion ink droplets passed thru it, but an idea of the volume of prints would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt

[michael]

I have just spoken with a senior Canon exective who has stated unequivocally that the new 1 year warrenty on heads applies equally to the PG-01, PF-02 and PF-03 series heads.

He agreed that the wording of the warrenty statement could have been clearer, but he has double checked within Canon and there is no question that all three models of the heads for the iPF printers will receive equal treatment.

Michael

[mkress65]

I have just spoken with a senior Canon exective who has stated unequivocally that the new 1 year warrenty on heads applies equally to the PG-01, PF-02 and PF-03 series heads.

He agreed that the wording of the warrenty statement could have been clearer, but he has double checked within Canon and there is no question that all three models of the heads for the iPF printers will receive equal treatment.

Michael
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While I appreciate his comments that the warranty could be clearer, the fact is that the warranty is not really unclear -- its conflicting.  The first part of the warranty still states "This warranty shall not extend to consumables, such as paper, ink cartridges and print heads, as to which there shall be no warranty or replacement."  It does not say that the first warranty doesn't apply, it says "no warranty".  Their latest warranty is in conflict with this statement.  Also, their latest warranty specifically includes only the PF-03 and NOT the 01 or 02.  It may be their policy, to replace the 01 and 02, but they are simply not covered by any warranty (at least Canon legal would be able to make a strong argument for that in court.)  Since their warranties generally disclaim any other warranty (express/implied/ verbal or written) the fact that he promised you coverage, does not mean that they are covered by the warranty -- although probably by their policy.  Its nice that their policy covers it, and you could argue course of performance in court, but its still not a warranty for PF-01 or PF-02.  

So long as Canon stands by their (non-legal) promise, that's fine (and don't get me wrong, I appreciate your efforts in getting them to at least do that) -- but I don't think anyone should be confused that the older print heads are covered by warranty; and the new warranty on the 03's is in conflict w/ their older one -- a pretty shoddy job by Canon legal...

Matt

[michael]

Well, I've done what I can. If anyone else would like to tilt against the Canon windmill, they can.

Michael

[mkress65]

Well, I've done what I can. If anyone else would like to tilt against the Canon windmill, they can.

Michael
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Thanks Michael.  Certainly didn't want to diminish what you've done, and I really appreciate it -- the situation is much better than it was and I'm glad they've clarified their policy regarding replacement of defective PF-01/ 02 print heads.  

I've been trying to engage Canon in a dialogue about this (and other issues, namely Brad Garbus), but, to them, I'm a nobody and they refuse to respond to my messages (except for Chuck Westfall and he's not even in the LFP group!)   Somehow I doubt that threatening to take my business elsewhere would even phase them...

Matt

[John Hollenberg]

Michael,

Your efforts are certainly appreciated, but the excuse by Canon that the legal department is to blame for this is pretty thin.  To suggest that they didn't know what they were doing, when the added part under warranty specifically excludes the PF-01 and PF-02 heads and says to contact Canon stretches credibility.  My guess is that they want to deal with the problem on a case by case basis and give themselves as much legal wriggle room as possible.  

Perhaps a matter of semantics until they deny a warranty claim for a failed printhead...  At any rate, certainly an improvement over the previous situation of no warranty.  Thanks for all your efforts!

--John

[djgarcia]

Michael,

As an iPF5000 owner, a gazillion thanks for your efforts! I may actually reconsider my original inclination to not get a Canon for my 24" or 36" acquisition in the near future, as I really like what I get from the iPF5000 and in general am very happy with it. Having a common set of inks is always a plus.

It is unfortunate we would not be able to use the new black inks if we used the PF-03 heads and new firmware in the iPF5000 since the carts won't physically fit. OTOH, buying new heads is almost as expensive as getting a new printer .

DJ