Mid-priced 16-bit editors?

[AndyF2]

The choice for 16 bit editors is limited, and CS3 is the current top tool.  If photography is your profession, then it's cost is completely reasonable.  For dedicated non-pros, the cost is higher than comfortable.  Are there any good editors in the $200-300 range (CS3 being about Cdn$750)?
Elements 5 is out, it can't do layers in 16 bit.  LR is very nice, but has no editing tools.  I'd like an editor that has layers for additional images, and some control layers for blending masks.
Andy

[JLK]

The choice for 16 bit editors is limited, and CS3 is the current top tool.  If photography is your profession, then it's cost is completely reasonable.  For dedicated non-pros, the cost is higher than comfortable.  Are there any good editors in the $200-300 range (CS3 being about Cdn$750)?
Elements 5 is out, it can't do layers in 16 bit.  LR is very nice, but has no editing tools.  I'd like an editor that has layers for additional images, and some control layers for blending masks.
Andy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121336\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andy,

I would recommend that you try Lightzone from Light Crafts, if you are solely interested in editing single photos (not composting, no HDR). Version 3 is out and it has a number of improvements, not least of which is speed. The paradigm is quite a bit different than photoshop, but my feeling is if you're a photographer (and especially if you've done wet darkroom work)---once you get it, you'll like it better than PS. They have a free 30 day trial. If you like it, you can get a 20% discount through either theonlinephotographer.com or digitaloutbackphoto.com

There are tutorials on Light Craft's site, and a Google video with Uwe Steinmueller and Fabio Riccardi (the CTO of Light Crafts) discussing the approach Lightzone takes (the PhotoTechEDU Google videos are very good, BTW).

Jim

[Recked]

Hey Andy,

Not sure if this can be done legally, but I have a number of older (pre CS3) versions of Photoshop (all legal) that you are welcome to. CS and CS2 are upgrade disks so not sure I can give them away. If you know and it is legal let me know and you can have one.

thanks

Andy,

I would recommend that you try Lightzone from Light Crafts, if you are solely interested in editing single photos (not composting, no HDR). Version 3 is out and it has a number of improvements, not least of which is speed. The paradigm is quite a bit different than photoshop, but my feeling is if you're a photographer (and especially if you've done wet darkroom work)---once you get it, you'll like it better than PS. They have a free 30 day trial. If you like it, you can get a 20% discount through either theonlinephotographer.com or digitaloutbackphoto.com

There are tutorials on Light Craft's site, and a Google video with Uwe Steinmueller and Fabio Riccardi (the CTO of Light Crafts) discussing the approach Lightzone takes (the PhotoTechEDU Google videos are very good, BTW).

Jim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121397\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Recked]

I meant to mention that I use Lightzone, Lightroom and Photoshop as well and Lightzone (from Lightcrafts) is a very interesting and useful application. It is more visual in my humble opinion as compared to older versions of Photoshop where you had to use curves etc.

just my two cents............

[mbridgers]

Picture Window Pro is mentioned occasionally.

http://www.dl-c.com/

The Pro version is only USD 89.95.

I haven't used it, though I did try it a while back.  I found is kind of confusing, but I was used to Photoshop.

Norman Koren has a tutorial on his website: http://www.normankoren.com/PWP_intro.html

[AndyF2]

Andy,

I would recommend that you try Lightzone from Light Crafts, if you are solely interested in editing single photos (not composting, no HDR). Version 3 is out and it has a number of improvements, not least of which is speed. The paradigm is quite a bit different than photoshop, but my feeling is if you're a photographer (and especially if you've done wet darkroom work)---once you get it, you'll like it better than PS. They have a free 30 day trial. If you like it, you can get a 20% discount through either theonlinephotographer.com or digitaloutbackphoto.com

There are tutorials on Light Craft's site, and a Google video with Uwe Steinmueller and Fabio Riccardi (the CTO of Light Crafts) discussing the approach Lightzone takes (the PhotoTechEDU Google videos are very good, BTW).

Jim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121397\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Jim; I hadn't heard about Lightzone before.  I've downloaded basic 2.4 and full 3.0 to try.  Interesting that LZ Basic is offered at 30% off, for Lightroom owners!

Andy

[AndyF2]

Hey Andy,

Not sure if this can be done legally, but I have a number of older (pre CS3) versions of Photoshop (all legal) that you are welcome to. CS and CS2 are upgrade disks so not sure I can give them away. If you know and it is legal let me know and you can have one.

thanks
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121398\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for offering, but I suspect it would be complicated.  The licences for your upgrades are probably based on the owning the preceding version.  Likely your license would not be affected if I installed an old copy, but I might find it ceases to run once it checks for updates.  The time to deal with complications is more limited than my budget!
I'll check Lightzone though, it looks interesting.
Regards,
Andy

[AndyF2]

Picture Window Pro is mentioned occasionally.

http://www.dl-c.com/

The Pro version is only USD 89.95.

I haven't used it, though I did try it a while back.  I found is kind of confusing, but I was used to Photoshop.

Norman Koren has a tutorial on his website: http://www.normankoren.com/PWP_intro.html
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I had tried PWP awhile ago and deleted it; I suspect it was the 8 bit, not pro version and so it had no advantage for me over Elements and LR.   I'll see what the Pro version is like.
Andy

[Raoul]

Cinepaint is free.  

http://www.cinepaint.org/

[Andre22]

I had tried PWP awhile ago and deleted it; I suspect it was the 8 bit, not pro version and so it had no advantage for me over Elements and LR.   I'll see what the Pro version is like.
Andy
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

From the specs for PW Pro 4.0:
[a href=\"http://dl-c.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=28]http://dl-c.com/index.php?option=com_conte...id=14&Itemid=28[/url]

"Full support for 48 bit color/16 bit B+W"

Even though PW might not fit your immediate requirements, it's really worth persisting with - at least enough to get a feel of what it can do with tone and colour. If PS is great for batch work, then I'd say PW's strength is working up individual images. There is a certain old school purity to this program that some people like. I find it a nice change from PS - esp. working with exterior / landscape shots with a wide tonal range.

Note that it uses the dcraw library for RAW.

Andre

[AndyF2]

From the specs for PW Pro 4.0:
http://dl-c.com/index.php?option=com_conte...id=14&Itemid=28

"Full support for 48 bit color/16 bit B+W"

Even though PW might not fit your immediate requirements, it's really worth persisting with - at least enough to get a feel of what it can do with tone and colour. If PS is great for batch work, then I'd say PW's strength is working up individual images. There is a certain old school purity to this program that some people like. I find it a nice change from PS - esp. working with exterior / landscape shots with a wide tonal range.

Note that it uses the dcraw library for RAW.

Andre
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127548\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Andre,
I took a closer look at PW Pro (and LightZone), and bought PWPro; the price is extremely good, and good tools are there.  It may have been the lack of PS-style layers and canvas resizing that made me not pick it up first time around.

What's the impact of the dcraw library?  Is that just a remark about the program, or does it result in limitations or benefits?

Andy

[Andre22]

Hi Andre,
I took a closer look at PW Pro (and LightZone), and bought PWPro; the price is extremely good, and good tools are there.  It may have been the lack of PS-style layers and canvas resizing that made me not pick it up first time around.

What's the impact of the dcraw library?  Is that just a remark about the program, or does it result in limitations or benefits?

Andy
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's great. Take your time and test out all the menu items so you have a sense of what is available to you. Note that a separate DLC product called Color Mechanic is included in PW Pro and is available via Transformations > Color >Correction. This is one of the key features of PW Pro.

If you have the time, then I'd learn a bit about dcraw and experiment. It's an impressive open source library that offers a lot of deep level options for control of the RAW demosiacing process.
[a href=\"http://cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/]http://cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/[/url]

Go here for a dcraw RAW image viewer (which can be pathed in Irfan View)
http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/digicam/dcraw/dcraw2ps.htm

Here is a post re: RAW support in PW Pro from the DLC forum:
http://www.dl-c.com/discus/messages/2/10762.html?1182234437

I feel RAW development in PW Pro needs more refinement - so yes, for me it's a limitation. (But well compensated by other features).

After testing most - if not all - of the major RAW development options available (suitable for Pentax K10D) I settled with the somewhat underrated SilkyPix which is very well priced. Highlights include great colour control as well as the excellent digital shift lens.
http://www.isl.co.jp/SILKYPIX/english/

But the best option for basic RAW development (IMO) remains the old RawShooter Premium (which was snatched up by Adobe and became the basis for LR). If your camera is supported I'd seriously try and grab a S/H copy (maybe ask around at a local photography club or something). A very efficiently coded program with excellent RAW demosiacing. Could be a great companion with PW.

Andre

[rdonson]

If Photoshop is what you really want but the price is holding you back consider taking a college course and buying Photoshop at the bookstore.  The educational version of Photoshop is about half the price.

[plugsnpixels]

The cross-platform PhotoLine32 is a nice "replacement" for Photoshop, and is only $80. It's written by a guy in Germany.

As for the educational version of PS, it is a great deal, but non-upgradable, IIRC. That won't matter for over a year, though.

And of course GIMP is free and supports layers, filters, etc. and is free... Free is good!

[Doc Brown]

The cross-platform PhotoLine32 is a nice "replacement" for Photoshop, and is only $80. It's written by a guy in Germany.

As for the educational version of PS, it is a great deal, but non-upgradable, IIRC. That won't matter for over a year, though.

And of course GIMP is free and supports layers, filters, etc. and is free... Free is good!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127904\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The educational version of PS is indeed upgradeable. I just did this a few months back with an educational copy of 7 to the full version of CS2. It was $150 USD.

The GIMP is an excellent Photoshop replacement for many people. In some respects it is better. But it lacks 16 bit file support and color management. Andy is looking for an alternative that supports 16 bit. Anyone who's even a little serious about their output needs both of these features. That's the only reason I don't use the GIMP anymore. Gimp 2.4 is promised to have color management, but not 16 bit support. They claim they would have to trash the code and start over.