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Morgan_Moore

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Emotion22
« on: May 31, 2007, 10:19:38 am »

Right about a year late I have upgraded my mac to 10.4 and now can use brumbaers tools for processing files from my E22

how does the highlight recover work or is that built in ??

Are there losses by going from eyelike file to DNG

Basically I now have DNGs and am totally new to this format



I see they open in ACR which gives me a temperature slider for the first time (hooray)

Can people give me a guide on the sharpening levels they use in ACR

BUt what other sofwares handle DNG and are hot at it

can I read DNGs in C1 ??

(this could be good as I can pass images to people (PPtechs) who usually shoot phase and are C1 happy)

Are eyelike shooters dong the DNG thing and binning thier originals or what ??

Any comments appreciated

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

thsinar

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Emotion22
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2007, 10:58:36 am »

Dear Sam,

The highlight recovery roughly works following way:

Usually, when highlights are blown out, NOT the 3 channels are completly blown out. Most of the time there is at least one channel with a little information inside, if not 2.
instead of simply cutting then the hightlights (like DMFB capture softs are doing to avoid colour casts) when one or two channels are "blown out", the recovery feature will take the information which is there in the one channel not "blown out" and apply it as a neutral value to the two other channels, avoiding this way any coulor cast in the highlights. This feature allows to gain at the very minimum of 2 f-stops in the highlights and make use of the whole (or nearly whole) dynamic range of the sensor. This is built-in and automatic, without you noticing it happening: you will only notice it when you compare 2 images containing such critical highlights, one processed without the Brumbaer tools and the other with. This feature is unique in the market, and I haven't seen better recovery yet, since all MFDB capture softwares currently proceed the same way (unless there is something new in the just released new Leaf version).

he Brumbaer tools allow both Sinar .STI files and files from the Eyelike backs to be converted into DNG files.

The original files are never lost with the Brumbaer tools: they are kept and stored automatically as an "IA" (Image Archive) file and a "BR" (Black Reference) file in the same folder as the converted DNG's.

DNG files can be oppened and processed in all DNG compatible applications, like LR, CR, Raw D, etc ... In my opinion, Light Room is doing currently the best job and having the most powerful features and processing.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Right about a year late I have upgraded my mac to 10.4 and now can use brumbaers tools for processing files from my E22

how does the highlight recover work or is that built in ??

Are there losses by going from eyelike file to DNG

Basically I now have DNGs and am totally new to this format
I see they open in ACR which gives me a temperature slider for the first time (hooray)

Can people give me a guide on the sharpening levels they use in ACR

BUt what other sofwares handle DNG and are hot at it

can I read DNGs in C1 ??

(this could be good as I can pass images to people (PPtechs) who usually shoot phase and are C1 happy)

Are eyelike shooters dong the DNG thing and binning thier originals or what ??

Any comments appreciated

SMM
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« Last Edit: May 31, 2007, 10:59:00 am by thsinar »
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Thierry Hagenauer
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DominiqueMarcWehrli

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Emotion22
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2007, 11:02:17 am »

how does the highlight recover work or is that built in ??
built in

Can people give me a guide on the sharpening levels they use in ACR
sharpening off, lum. noise off, color noise reduction depending on the subject

Are eyelike shooters dong the DNG thing and binning thier originals or what ??
i keep them, if i ever want to reconvert

Any comments appreciated
get a gretag color checker and use the calibration in the brumbaer tool. it works great

dominique
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Morgan_Moore

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Emotion22
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2007, 11:38:43 am »

Quote
get a gretag color checker and use the calibration in the brumbaer tool. it works [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120435\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

How were ?? (I DLd eMotionDng 1.4)


I have a card to photograph

S
« Last Edit: May 31, 2007, 11:42:14 am by Morgan_Moore »
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

DominiqueMarcWehrli

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Emotion22
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2007, 11:51:01 am »

How were ?? (I DLd eMotionDng 1.4)

Look under HELP > Finding the best parameters, scroll to Color matrix

Dominique
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thsinar

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Emotion22
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2007, 05:56:32 pm »

By the way Sam,

May you don't know it yet, but the "eMotion Reader", beside downloading the raws from your eMotion, can now also be used to shoot tethered.

he images pop-up so quickly in your Reader, that it makes the whole process and workflow so fast, inclusive DNG conversion.

Best,
Thierry

Quote
Are eyelike shooters dong the DNG thing and binning thier originals or what ??

Any comments appreciated

SMM
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Thierry Hagenauer
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rainer_v

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Emotion22
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2007, 06:00:48 pm »

i usually do not use sharpening in acr, and i recommend in any case to use the new acr which is implied in ps3 8 or the lightroom konverter ) cause it is much better than the older acr.
high light recovery can just work in full quality with the original raw data from the emotion backs, once the highlights are cutten there is no way to restore the data again, so via brumbaer converted sti files are not as good as via brumbaer  converted IA and BR files ( which is the original raw ),- although you do not loose anything if you compare the sti file with the converted dng file.
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rainer viertlböck
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David WM

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Emotion22
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2007, 12:34:51 am »

Quote
Right about a year late I have upgraded my mac to 10.4 and now can use brumbaers tools for processing files from my E22

Any comments appreciated

SMM
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Sam,  One of Rehnniar's old posts covered it well, try this link:

[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?act=Search&CODE=show&searchid=8aee6fd77d0aa5cbdd0ba66e41f28f5f&search_in=posts&result_type=posts&highlite=e75i]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....s&highlite=e75i[/url]

For tethered shooting I still use Captureshop. The eMotion reader works well but I don't like the preview quality or size. I find I have to use eMotion dng if I have a lot of files to process as my captureshop 5.4.2 doesn't seem that stable when processing more than around 50 files. eMotion dng just eats them fast, its impressive. I also use eMotion dng when I need the highlight recovery, but it does seem to darken the whole file for me, so if I have a well exposed file I prefer the Captureshop look. I haven't really come to grips with ACR, or maybe its just that I don't like all those sliders. I probably need to put in more time on it, but I do like the colour temp control too.
I am hoping that the new Sinar eXposureT 6.0 will solve all problems and make life easy as I understand it includes input from Stephan Hess re the eMotion dng tools.
David
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thsinar

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Emotion22
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2007, 02:34:25 am »

hi David,

For tethered shooting the "eMotion Reader" allows sizing of the previews displayed: there is a slider on the left side of the previews window.

It is strange that the dng converter darkens the files for you: this is not something I have never noticed or experienced in any of my use of it. Could you emphasize? Is it darkened from the preview displayed (which is normal, since the preview is a raw display not at all corrected for viewing like e.g. in CS), or is it darkened from a same file processed in CS?

CS stability when processing: it can happen when over 50 files are processed from the same folder, due to CS being a very "hungry" memory application. The new beta version is in this respect stable. It should be released in a few days.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Sam,  One of Rehnniar's old posts covered it well, try this link:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....s&highlite=e75i

For tethered shooting I still use Captureshop. The eMotion reader works well but I don't like the preview quality or size. I find I have to use eMotion dng if I have a lot of files to process as my captureshop 5.4.2 doesn't seem that stable when processing more than around 50 files. eMotion dng just eats them fast, its impressive. I also use eMotion dng when I need the highlight recovery, but it does seem to darken the whole file for me, so if I have a well exposed file I prefer the Captureshop look. I haven't really come to grips with ACR, or maybe its just that I don't like all those sliders. I probably need to put in more time on it, but I do like the colour temp control too.
I am hoping that the new Sinar eXposureT 6.0 will solve all problems and make life easy as I understand it includes input from Stephan Hess re the eMotion dng tools.
David
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Thierry Hagenauer
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rainer_v

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Emotion22
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2007, 05:59:39 am »

for tethered shooting exists a program by stephan, which is still BETA and therefor not public available. write a email to him if you are interested in it.
the emotionDNG files are not darkened but the contrast range is logically 1 - 2 stops wider, and the automatic exposure settings ( if you allow it ) in ACR and other programms are missleaded by the files for the diffferent highlights and tend to make the file look darker in auto setting.
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rainer viertlböck
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David WM

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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2007, 09:43:44 am »

Hi Thierry

I've attached a couple of low res images, the same .sti file processed CS 5.4.2 using std curve 3, and through eMotion dng on default ( I just downloaded a new version 1.4 so it is running on default as I am using macbook at home). I processed the dng through Camera Raw on default.



Quote
hi David,
It is strange that the dng converter darkens the files for you: this is not something I have never noticed or experienced in any of my use of it. Could you emphasize? Is it darkened from the preview displayed (which is normal, since the preview is a raw display not at all corrected for viewing like e.g. in CS), or is it darkened from a same file processed in CS?
Best regards,
Thierry
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[attachment=2583:attachment][attachment=2584:attachment]
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rainer_v

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Emotion22
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2007, 10:17:26 am »

if you read what i wrote above you might understand whats happening.
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rainer viertlböck
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thsinar

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Emotion22
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2007, 10:46:31 am »

in addition to Rainer's explication: you are applying in CS a toning curve, which does not happen in the dng conversion.

Thierry

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if you read what i wrote above you might understand whats happening.
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David WM

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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2007, 10:50:31 am »

Yes  Rehnniar I understand, but I suppose what I mean is that the look you get from the file is very different. I have not put a lot of time into ACR, but I like the look that CS gives me and I have difficulty in producing similar looking files from the dng route. I find CS good in the studio where I shoot and export individual files. When I shoot a lot of photos  and want to batch process I go the dng route, and use ACR, then photoshop to get a look I am happy with. It does seem logical to me that the dng will give a darker result as it seems that you are just using the part of the histogram further to the right, both highlights and shaddows darken, does that make sense to you? I am not using CS3 yet, but would be interested in what your typical ACR setting are for the dng's. Do you use the curves to open up the shaddows?
David
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David WM

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Emotion22
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2007, 10:58:12 am »

Thanks Thierry yes that would explain it. Maybe more curving in ACR is needed.

David

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in addition to Rainer's explication: you are applying in CS a toning curve, which does not happen in the dng conversion.

Thierry
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rainer_v

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« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2007, 12:08:54 pm »

very important is which profile you use. you HAVE to make a kalibration of emotionDNG with the 24 field gretag colorchecker with your individual back. if you do not the results are not good or at least not comparable not with CS not with a kalibrated back.

best results for 5500 kelvin i got either shooting the gretag in cloudy daylight ( app.6500k ) or direct in afternoon or late morning light.

also important is that you save your profile with the right color temperature in the slider in emotionDNG at the left top side, ACR is using this embedded temperature to read out the color temperature.
Not so iridient RAW.
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rainer viertlböck
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ynp

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« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2007, 07:22:07 am »

Dear Rainer ,

I am not sure that I understood your recomendation to shoot a ColorChecker at 6500K (cloudy daulight)
Brumbaer recomender to shoot the ColorChecher twice ( From the Help File):
"Color matrix:
You might want to create a custom Color Matrix for the default or a custom White Refernce file. The procedure is identical, just make sure the correct White Refernce is selected.
Take a shot of a ColorChecker 24 or ColorChecker SG chart. The shot should be evenly lit. The light should have the temperature for which the Color Matrix shall be valid.

If you can create two matrixes, make one shot about 5500K and one about 2800K. If you can only make one shot take it at 5000K if possible."

I did that with my e22 (checked the temperature with the  Gossen Colormaster) and saved two matrixes. I cannot say that my colors are better that in  the Eyelike CaprurePro, I still need to make a lot of corrections in LL (Green Tint).  For copying work I still use my CapturePro, and Brumbaer Tools for everything else.

I have bought an old e75 and I will have to calibrate the  new/old back next week.
Did I miss something? What workflow would you advice to have  perfect results ?

Thank you,
Yevgeny



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best results for 5500 kelvin i got either shooting the gretag in cloudy daylight ( app.6500k ) or direct in afternoon or late morning light.
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rainer_v

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« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2007, 10:23:37 am »

its just my personal experience. shot in sunny daylight you will get stronger saturated colors, esp. the reds. i often prefere the colors which result from cloudy- colorchecker shots. try a little bit around, its also varyies from sensor to sensor, but the differences between diffferent color profiles are huge. i usually just set the upper color profile and put the second to ignore,- but as said above you should try it out, its worth the time and once you have found your settings no reason to repeat it again.


I have bought an old e75 and I will have to calibrate the  new/old back next week.
Did I miss something? What workflow would you advice to have  perfect results ?

Thank you,
Yevgeny
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rainer viertlböck
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ynp

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« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2007, 10:35:17 am »

Thank you,
 I will try
.
Regards,
Yevgeny
quote=rehnniar,Jun 13 2007, 06:23 PM]
its just my personal experience. shot in sunny daylight you will get stronger saturated colors, esp. the reds. i often prefere the colors which result from cloudy- colorchecker shots. try a little bit around, its also varyies from sensor to sensor, but the differences between diffferent color profiles are huge. i usually just set the upper color profile and put the second to ignore,- but as said above you should try it out, its worth the time and once you have found your settings no reason to repeat it again.
I have bought an old e75 and I will have to calibrate the  new/old back next week.
Did I miss something? What workflow would you advice to have  perfect results ?

Thank you,
Yevgeny
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[/quote]
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