B&W tips with z3100?

[ricgal]

I am sending the files through at 200-25dpi 8bit Greyscale
I have tried Application managed colour and Printer managed colour and noticed little difference.  On a carefully calibrated pro monitor there is a tendenccy for the blocks to block up a little in the print compared to what I am seeing on screen.  Has anyone else experienced this? (this is a subtle not major problem).
I am pleased with HP pro Satin for B&W and am experimenting with Pearl Rag

[neil snape]

I am sending the files through at 200-25dpi 8bit Greyscale
I have tried Application managed colour and Printer managed colour and noticed little difference.  On a carefully calibrated pro monitor there is a tendenccy for the blocks to block up a little in the print compared to what I am seeing on screen.  Has anyone else experienced this? (this is a subtle not major problem).
I am pleased with HP pro Satin for B&W and am experimenting with Pearl Rag
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118407\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes I have always seen differences between App cm, printer clr management and 8 bit greyscale. I have the best results by sending rgb files to printer CM, then print as greyscale, grey inks only. This is slightly different than if you send an r=g=b grey image through ICC profiles too. The levels of separation  depend on the media, and the tables for the grey only printing. It is not completely linear. Which percentage areas drop out on your image?

[ricgal]

Yes I have always seen differences between App cm, printer clr management and 8 bit greyscale. I have the best results by sending rgb files to printer CM, then print as greyscale, grey inks only. This is slightly different than if you send an r=g=b grey image through ICC profiles too. The levels of separation  depend on the media, and the tables for the grey only printing. It is not completely linear. Which percentage areas drop out on your image?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118413\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

95-98% is dropping out
The customer is supplying 16bit greyscale Imacom scans-  do you reckon I should convert to RGB b4 sending to print?

[neil snape]

95-98% is dropping out
The customer is supplying 16bit greyscale Imacom scans-  do you reckon I should convert to RGB b4 sending to print?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118416\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would just try a little tone ramp in rgb with steps of 1% or so and print in grey from rgb printer clr management. That will tell you if you have sparation in the shadows. I haven't found an inkjet without a rip that will but they probably exist.

[Ernst Dinkla]

95-98% is dropping out
The customer is supplying 16bit greyscale Imacom scans-  do you reckon I should convert to RGB b4 sending to print?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm using the advanced B&W mode of the driver. If you have access to a separate densitometer of spectrometer I would recommend to get QTR and use the B&W profile creation application that is included in that program.
After you have calibrated the paper on the Z3100 you can print the QTR targets for B&W profiling (or the targets I made) on the Z3100, measure them and create the profile. The printer profiles can be used in Photoshop or Qimage. The different printer profiles created that way will make a perceptually correct tone range between paper white and Dmax for the specific papers. This allows you to keep the smaller sized B&W image formats and get faster processing, in this case with a profiled B&W workflow. The B&W image can have 2.2 Gamma embedded or the QTR B&W profile that is slightly better with the perceptual curve.

Using the Advanced B&W method + the profiling above is a hybrid between the old B&W darkroom and modern profiling, maybe a more precise digital answer to the multigrade papers of the past. It keeps the memory use low and speed high, the file can be archived as a neutral B&W image suitable for all papers as the profiling will do the job in adaption to the paper's tone range. The color tone sliders add the desired color shift. It suits Qimage's extrapolation + intelligent print sharpening as that also allows you to use one file for several sizes etc without changing the file itself. The only disadvantage with Qimage is that it will internally change the file to a neutral RGB one but the AdvB&W driver will do its job.

It would be nice if the Z3100 could print and measure similar B&W targets for the Advanced B&W driver mode. They can use my target designs if they like to do that.
I could add some improvements to the method if needed, for example a method to average the profile if color toning is used. I have mentioned the possibility to one of the HP developers on the Photokina. The Advanced B&W printer mode could get color profiling instead of what I mention above but I have seen that for example the Fine Art paper> 250 grams gives better Dmax than the wider gamut Litho paper setting so  I use a different paper setting for Color and B&W.

www.quadtonerip.com

[a href=\"http://www.pigment-print.com/Quad%20QTR/Index.html]http://www.pigment-print.com/Quad%20QTR/Index.html[/url]


Ernst Dinkla

www.pigment-print.com

[rdonson]

I'm using the advanced B&W mode of the driver. If you have access to a separate densitometer of spectrometer I would recommend to get QTR and use the B&W profile creation application that is included in that program.
After you have calibrated the paper on the Z3100 you can print the QTR targets for B&W profiling (or the targets I made) on the Z3100, measure them and create the profile. The printer profiles can be used in Photoshop or Qimage. The different printer profiles created that way will make a perceptually correct tone range between paper white and Dmax for the specific papers. This allows you to keep the smaller sized B&W image formats and get faster processing, in this case with a profiled B&W workflow. The B&W image can have 2.2 Gamma embedded or the QTR B&W profile that is slightly better with the perceptual curve.

Using the Advanced B&W method + the profiling above is a hybrid between the old B&W darkroom and modern profiling, maybe a more precise digital answer to the multigrade papers of the past. It keeps the memory use low and speed high, the file can be archived as a neutral B&W image suitable for all papers as the profiling will do the job in adaption to the paper's tone range. The color tone sliders add the desired color shift. It suits Qimage's extrapolation + intelligent print sharpening as that also allows you to use one file for several sizes etc without changing the file itself. The only disadvantage with Qimage is that it will internally change the file to a neutral RGB one but the AdvB&W driver will do its job.

It would be nice if the Z3100 could print and measure similar B&W targets for the Advanced B&W driver mode. They can use my target designs if they like to do that.
I could add some improvements to the method if needed, for example a method to average the profile if color toning is used. I have mentioned the possibility to one of the HP developers on the Photokina. The Advanced B&W printer mode could get color profiling instead of what I mention above but I have seen that for example the Fine Art paper> 250 grams gives better Dmax than the wider gamut Litho paper setting so  I use a different paper setting for Color and B&W.

www.quadtonerip.com

http://www.pigment-print.com/Quad%20QTR/Index.html
Ernst Dinkla

www.pigment-print.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118502\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ernst, this raises a question for me.  I have a Z3100 that's been "calibrated".   Would it be possible for me to use a b&w profile you created on my printer given that I'd be using the same paper and dpi settings?

It would seem that if the Z3100 has been calibrated, that profiles others create with higher patch counts or different techniques would work quite well.