Custom CMYK in Photoshop

[Schwenny]

A client of mine is going to put up backlit display boxes on the wall. So when I talk to the place that is going to print it they say they don't have an ICC profile for it. I can just look at it in SWOP. So since I don't really get which one I shall look at (If I'm right there's a lot of different SWOP profiles and it's an American? I'm in Sweden so here it should be a different kind of CMYK?). So I ask the prepress guy to e-mail his ICC profile to me. It turns out that it's not an ICC profile... He goes in to the Color Settings in Photoshop, in the Working Spaces he goes in to the CMYK and instead of choosing a ready made ICC profile he goes up to the top where it says Custom CMYK and chooses the default. The Name is SWOP (Coated), 20% GCR, Medium. I never heard of anybody doing this, is this safe? I'm sure it's not! So I'm trying it on some RGB images and it takes away a lot of the red so it turns orange... Then I try the Euroscale Coated v2 and the "normal" small changes takes place to the colors. So it sounds dangerous the way this printer converts to CMYK. He says that the RIP takes care of the acctual conversion.

So this Custom CMYK mode they're using what is it really made for?

What should I do? I'm affraid of giving them an RGB and I don't want to CMYK it his way. Should I give him an Euroscale Coated v2?

Spoke to a friend this morning, he knew imediately about this place. They printed something else for him and everything was green... (mine loose red). So then they started changing the already converted image so everything turned yellow... He wasn't so happy about them to say the least.

[digitaldog]

So this Custom CMYK mode they're using what is it really made for?

Yes but don't use it, its buggy, the ink models are ancient and the SWOP definitions there have no basis in reality on the U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 profile which is based on TR001 SWOP.

This is usually the lame recommendations of shops that don't have a clue about using modern ICC color management to define a print process. Beware. You need an ICC profile that defines either the press or better, contract proofing device used for the job.

[Schwenny]

They say they have 20 printers and so many different media so it takes too much time to profile every printer to every media they print on... I don´t understand that since now they´re waisting my time instead.

So if they use this Custom CMYK mode will the final result be as bad as I see it? As I said it takes away a lot of red, a lot more than other CMYK profiles.

So what should I do? Am I better off sending them a Euroscale Coated v2 CMYK? Than letting them CMYK with their weird technique?

I´m thinking of sending them a RGB and Euroscal Coated v2 with Epson reference prints from my 4800 and let them deal with it. They have promised me to see something before. It´s just one print of each that they´re going to make for these lightboxes on the wall.

Another question since I´m in Europe I should use the European CMYK profiles only? Or would the American SWOP profiles also work sometimes?

Håkan

[digitaldog]

They say they have 20 printers and so many different media so it takes too much time to profile every printer to every media they print on... I don´t understand that since now they´re waisting my time instead.

They just said they have 20 devices that are all over the planet with respect to consistency and behavior. Does that sound comforting? Not to me.

So if they use this Custom CMYK mode will the final result be as bad as I see it? As I said it takes away a lot of red, a lot more than other CMYK profiles.

Who knows until ink hits paper (too late to fix an expensive problem). I doubt it will work well based on what they told you above, our printers are all different. Not good.

So what should I do? Am I better off sending them a Euroscale Coated v2 CMYK? Than letting them CMYK with their weird technique?

Build your own profile for the process and bill the client. Or, send tagged RGB and tell whoever, you can't be responsible for producing color conversions to processes that are totally undefined.

I´m thinking of sending them a RGB and Euroscal Coated v2 with Epson reference prints from my 4800 and let them deal with it. They have promised me to see something before. It´s just one print of each that they´re going to make for these lightboxes on the wall.

The Epson print is useless! They can't match it. You have no way to match it to their process unless you have their profile which is the crux of this problem. Just send them tagged RGB (sRGB would be safe) and a delivery notice that you are NOT responsible for any color issues on press since someone else is doing the CMYK conversions.

Another question since I´m in Europe I should use the European CMYK profiles only? Or would the American SWOP profiles also work sometimes?

You'd think so but in this case, its just a big guessing game, one that is expensive for you should the color go poorly on press. Just don't walk into this trap. Since there's no way to define the process, stay away from this process. Or control it correctly. But a half ass approach will do you no good.

[wolfnowl]

They say they have 20 printers and so many different media so it takes too much time to profile every printer to every media they print on...

There's an old saying, 'If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?'

My opinion?  Go somewhere else that values their work and your business...

Mike.