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Author Topic: HP Z3100 Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm  (Read 7506 times)

rdonson

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HP Z3100 Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm
« on: May 12, 2007, 09:31:47 am »

I just profiled some Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm paper with the Fine Art paper > 250 gsm paper type.  The prints look very good.  The blacks in the prints really stand out.

I was wondering if anyone else has used this paper on a Z3100.

Did you use Fine Art paper or Fine Art paper >250 gsm to create your profile?

I think the results I've seen are pretty close to Hahnemuhle Photo Rag (my HP Hahnemuhle SFA roles haven't come in yet).
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Ron

neil snape

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HP Z3100 Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2007, 12:08:56 pm »

Quote
I just profiled some Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm paper with the Fine Art paper > 250 gsm paper type.  The prints look very good.  The blacks in the prints really stand out.

I was wondering if anyone else has used this paper on a Z3100.

Did you use Fine Art paper or Fine Art paper >250 gsm to create your profile?

I think the results I've seen are pretty close to Hahnemuhle Photo Rag (my HP Hahnemuhle SFA roles haven't come in yet).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117098\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have Smooth   FA and Hahnemuhle PhotoRag 308 here.
The FA HP is by far the better. All the comparisons of reds are discounted when comparing the Smooth Fine art or similar media types (Enhanced Velvet etc) When you take paper white and black into account the HP, Canon, and Epson K3's start to look pretty similar when these media types are used.
I actually prefer the slightly less accurate internal profiler than APS in this case.
If you do external profiles, Monaco or Argyll would be a good choice for matte and HP Z printers.
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rdonson

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HP Z3100 Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2007, 01:02:37 pm »

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I have Smooth   FA and Hahnemuhle PhotoRag 308 here.
The FA HP is by far the better. All the comparisons of reds are discounted when comparing the Smooth Fine art or similar media types (Enhanced Velvet etc) When you take paper white and black into account the HP, Canon, and Epson K3's start to look pretty similar when these media types are used.
I actually prefer the slightly less accurate internal profiler than APS in this case.
If you do external profiles, Monaco or Argyll would be a good choice for matte and HP Z printers.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117131\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Neil, are you recommending the "Fine Art paper" type over the "Fine Art > 250 paper" type when creating a profile?  I'm not using APS, just the internal profiler.

Reading the HP Technical Newsletter on custom media the differences between the two paper types are:

ink limiting:_60 for FA > 250.......42 for FA
Blacks:_____Q for FA > 250.........M for FA
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Ron

neil snape

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HP Z3100 Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2007, 01:09:40 pm »

Yes those are the values that were to be in the current public firmware.
It seems to work here, better on these settings. Before it was 38 total inking I think. That was too low. Just be careful for buckling of the paper which will cause head strikes if the media is not handling the ink load well. Actually it's not the ink it's the water in the ink that doesn't dry out fast enough..
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rdonson

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HP Z3100 Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2007, 08:28:35 pm »

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Yes those are the values that were to be in the current public firmware.
It seems to work here, better on these settings. Before it was 38 total inking I think. That was too low. Just be careful for buckling of the paper which will cause head strikes if the media is not handling the ink load well. Actually it's not the ink it's the water in the ink that doesn't dry out fast enough..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117141\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The Moab Entrada held up very well with that ink load (60).  No buckling and it was dry when it came out of the printer.  

Still, I'll take your advice and re-profile using the Fine Art paper type where the ink limiting is 42.

It does beg a question though.  HP likes to say that you can use Quad blacks on matte paper.  According to the HP Technical Newsletter on custom media it appears that the Quad black capability is ONLY on the paper type "Fine Art paper > 250 gsm".
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Ron

neil snape

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HP Z3100 Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2007, 03:45:47 am »

Actually it's just that the quad black if not adding anything in certain parts of the gray ramp and or GCR regions could be excessive for little gain. This gets me thinking that a better more controllable driver should also have a switchable number of inks for grayscale printing.
The quad blacks are really good when they are really good. When they are not the three ink sparations on the HP 9180 are much more to my liking. They should have had Gloss Enhancer in the 9180 then it may have been one of the best printers for all B&W printers around.

After posing the question to HP, Quad blacks are used on fine art >250g/m2 but not on any other. So what I said above is only ture for FA >250g/m2.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2007, 03:09:47 am by neil snape »
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Darrill

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HP Z3100 Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2007, 11:24:31 pm »

I also used the FA>250 paper type and I am also very pleased with the results. But I have yet to print an image with strong reds and I have found with other papers that the reds improve significantly with a lighter ink load.
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rdonson

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HP Z3100 Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2007, 09:27:08 am »

Quote
I also used the FA>250 paper type and I am also very pleased with the results. But I have yet to print an image with strong reds and I have found with other papers that the reds improve significantly with a lighter ink load.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117390\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, Darrill.  I was beginning to think I was the only person who used this paper type and got good looking results.  Like you I haven't stressed this paper type with any significant reds in an image.

I'm still going to create a profile per Neil's suggestion with the FA paper type and see how they compare on Moab Entrada 300 gsm.
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Ron

Darrill

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HP Z3100 Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2007, 10:18:53 pm »

Ron,

Using the new driver and firmware I recalibrated and profiled for Entrada using Fine Art and Fine Art >250.

The profile charts that were printed are quite different especially wrt patches containing yellow. But the printed results using the Bill Atkinson test target are remarkably similar and I am not sure I could even choose between them. Almost all colors are vibrant and clean.

Except I find the reds good but slightly lifeless on the prints from both profiles. They are missing the sparkle that I find in the other colors.

I have some team photos to print in the next week where they are dressed in red uniforms so I will try a few on the Entrada and see what happens.

Darrill
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rdonson

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HP Z3100 Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2007, 10:52:36 am »

Quote
Ron,

Using the new driver and firmware I recalibrated and profiled for Entrada using Fine Art and Fine Art >250.

The profile charts that were printed are quite different especially wrt patches containing yellow. But the printed results using the Bill Atkinson test target are remarkably similar and I am not sure I could even choose between them. Almost all colors are vibrant and clean.

Except I find the reds good but slightly lifeless on the prints from both profiles. They are missing the sparkle that I find in the other colors.

I have some team photos to print in the next week where they are dressed in red uniforms so I will try a few on the Entrada and see what happens.

Darrill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118645\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the update, Darrill.  I haven't printed much red on the Entrada yet.  I'm starting to think that to make the most of this printer with that paper type we're going to need to create better profiles (using more patches) with APS or or another tool.
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Ron

MatthewG

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HP Z3100 Moab Entrada Bright 300 gsm
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2007, 07:33:48 am »

This is a very interesting thread.

I think it could help with a issue I am having with Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 460 vs ME 360  The Photo Rag is incredible with black and white prints.  Having all the pop and brilliance I look for in a B&W print, While the ME  is printing (to me) lifeless.  

I created a profile for both but just loaded the paper, then created custom profile.

Could this be the difference?  Should I redo profile?  

I could really use some help with this.  I just got my Z3100 a few days ago and am still getting up to speed on things.


PS   I am assuming that I should loading the paper and set it on the printer that I am loading FA 250?  Then Create the profile through HP Printer Utility?  

Sorry if I seem a bit slow.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2007, 07:52:33 am by MatthewG »
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