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Author Topic: Speaking Photography  (Read 5984 times)

iliosgallery

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Speaking Photography
« on: April 29, 2007, 09:39:05 pm »

The language of photography

True, enough: photography as a language has it’s own unique qualities while having common concerns with the other visual arts. Michael’s main theme is sound and indisputable. I would, however, take his analogy one step further. Being fluent in English, French or Spanish does not make one a competent writer or even a poet. And in my books this is really what art is about. It’s not enough to be technically savvy. (And heaven knows this digital-electronic age we’ve embarked upon makes the technical challenge insurmountable for the many not so inclined. Certainly, the learning curve of contemporary photography is far steeper than the black and white optical-chemical challenges of our predecessors. But this is a topic for a different day.)

To make my point and thereby extending Michael’s, I submit the following quote by Minor White, the notable editor of the old Aperture magazine, fine photographer, respected teacher and more than capable writer. In a paper titled, Equivalence: The Perennial Trend he expands on this concept first introduced by Stieglitz:

"In literature this specific feeling associated with Equivalence is called "poetic," using this word in a very broad and universal sense. Not having an exact equivalent for the word "poetic" in photography we will suggest the word "vision," meaning not only sight but insight. The effect that seems to be associated with Equivalence may be worded thus:

When both subject matter and manner of rendering are transcended, by whatever means, that which seems to be matter becomes what seems to be spirit."
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howiesmith

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Speaking Photography
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2007, 10:30:36 am »

Before you can write or even read poetry, you must know and use the vocabualry.  You must not only know what the words mean, but use them in the same way that your audience knows and uses them.  Otherwise, you are just writing what you think is poetry and no one else gets.  A horse is a horse, and if you call it a cow, not many people will know what you are talking about.

Before you can be an artist, you must know the mechanics of your art, and use them.  To be a sculptor, you not only need to understand art, but you need to know and understand stones and chisles.  It isn't as easy as taking a big chuck of rock and chipping away everything that doens't look like David.  Writers know how to write full sentences, even if they don't always do that.

To be a photographer, you need to know and understand what an f/stop is.  To communicate with others, everyone needs a comman understanding of what an f/stop is.
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idenford

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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2007, 12:41:24 pm »

For me, as an upcoming photographer, I take inspiration from four sources. Books on art, books on photography, film and nature. I have collected three of the above mentioned for years, even prior to my interest in photography. I was at a Diane Arbus exhibition at the Met in NYC three years ago and at one of the shots that displayed in the museum there was a crowd. The subject of the photo, a young teenage girl at the beach with a beehive hair do, was standing there in the flesh as a 50 year old woman, showing off her photo to the crowd. Sheer chance, and quite thrilling. I bought the book of photos and I have a habit of buying the book at every exhibit I attend, I don't think about the price, I just want to take the whole thing home with me. As I progress in my skill, I often re-look at many of my photo books and see new things always. I am a collector and have stacks of gems, and I am always looking for new inspiration. But now that I am really into studying light, I drive my wife crazy every time we look at a film or our wide screen tv. I tell her how I thought they lit the shot or scene. She now interrupts tells me it's not necessary for me to do that all the time!! Photography is not only a language it is an obsession and way of life! After spending thousands on SLR equipment and lights, etc, I am getting a Canon 800 point and shoot so I can carry a camera everywhere, every day because I see things all the time I want to shoot but don't have my equipment with me. Can't wait. Thanks for the article.
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NLund

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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2007, 01:10:13 pm »

Good points everybody.

Re howiesmith, I find your points particularly applicable to my current situation with photography. I don't feel that I have stagnated this spring, moreover that I haven't had the time nor given myself ample opportunities for growth as a photographer. I've been busy with school.

My (end) point of this is that I truly enjoy some of the shots I get, I feel they invoke either the mood I felt when seeing the subject or the mood I crop, edit, and tone for to give to the viewer. Somehow though, my language is off. There is a miscommunication somewhere in the long process of my initial contemplation of the subject to the final bequeathing of an image to the viewer. I work on creating something powerful or emotion and it just seems to get a flat response. (I could make some joke here about studying German throwing off my language of photography , hee hee)

Rambling aside, I simply feel Michael's article and your responses to be particularly apt to my goals with my photography.

Re idenford, last year I spent the vast majority of my time learning the aesthetic and technical aspects of photography. I was taking a break from school. Friends would ask my why I was looking up, kneeling down, and closing one eye. I told them I was analyzing the surroundings and trying to find the most interesting potential photograph. It was fun and I still close one eye a lot
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howiesmith

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Speaking Photography
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2007, 01:30:59 pm »

Nlund, I'm sorry if you misunderstood my post.  Interesting time for that to happen though.

I wasn't addressing the vocabulary or language of the photograph, but the photographer.  Not only does one need to learn the art and science of photography to be skilled, but you also need to know how to speak the photgraphy language.  I might know exactly what I mean, but if I say the shutter speed was f/11, I will confuse most photographers and they will have no idea what I am talking about.  The photo I took at f/11 might be stunning though.  You just can't make up your own vocabulary and be understood by many.  (But then, my wife uses a thingy to take photos sometimes, and I know exactly what she wants when she asks me to please pass the thingy.)

To respond to idenford, I don't think one needs to be obsessed by photography or make it your way of life to really enjoy it.  Maybe that is why I frequently set my camera down and just watch the sunset.  Sounds corny, but maybe I am saying to be obsessed with life and take photos when, where, and of what you want.
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ARCASWISS

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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2007, 03:52:02 pm »

It's just all photo snob-speak to me.  Say foie gras instead of goose liver.
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howiesmith

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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2007, 04:23:18 pm »

Quote
It's just all photo snob-speak to me.  Say foie gras instead of goose liver.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115042\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
My point exactly.  What is photo snob-speak?

Foie gras is made from the firm liver of a goose or duck.  

Goose liver is the liver of a goose used as meat.

What are you attempting to say?
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ARCASWISS

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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2007, 05:29:29 pm »

I was referring to Michael's double talk article, not the need for correct technical terms.
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michael

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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2007, 05:42:14 pm »

Doug,,

It seems clear from your persistant needling tone in this message and others on this forum that you neither like me nor my writing.

If it gives you pleasure to be an asshole here, fine – just expect to be treated like one in return from now on. No one likes to be insulted in their own home, which is what this site is, so watch your step.

Michael
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idenford

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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2007, 05:47:07 pm »

A magnificent obsession is a thing to enjoy imo. I tend to be the obsessive compulsive type, but that means I can enjoy heaps of things rather than a little bit here and a little bit there. Life's too short to sample the appetizers, I want the whole meal and often. Just the way I am.
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howiesmith

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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2007, 05:58:29 pm »

Quote
A magnificent obsession is a thing to enjoy imo. I tend to be the obsessive compulsive type, but that means I can enjoy heaps of things rather than a little bit here and a little bit there. Life's too short to sample the appetizers, I want the whole meal and often. Just the way I am.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115068\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

A taste is as good as a feast.  Life is too short (maybe shorter than you think) to spend it with your head in the toilet getting rid of the gorging.

I'm not so sure that obsessive-compulsives enjoy what they are doing so much as they feel compelled to perform the ritual.  But if taking 10,000 frames on a two week vacation is what you enjoy doing on your vacation, ... .

All my opinion of course.
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howiesmith

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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2007, 06:01:05 pm »

Quote
I was referring to Michael's double talk article, not the need for correct technical terms.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115064\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Another lesson learned.  Sometimes it isn't clear at whom you are directing all those precise words.
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idenford

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« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2007, 07:09:57 pm »

Quote
A taste is as good as a feast.  Life is too short (maybe shorter than you think) to spend it with your head in the toilet getting rid of the gorging.

I'm not so sure that obsessive-compulsives enjoy what they are doing so much as they feel compelled to perform the ritual.  But if taking 10,000 frames on a two week vacation is what you enjoy doing on your vacation, ... .

All my opinion of course.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115070\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You miss the point of my joy, at what I enjoy, regardless of my passion which is different than a compulsion or obsession. Passion for something does not mean it is all about obession or compulsion although looking back on when I courted my wife, it was no less passionate for the sake of my obsession, so you miss the joy of my point. Anyway, let's drop this. Photography is a passion for me, which requires, I believe, a certain healthy obsession to learn, if a photographer wants to improve at their craft and create more interesting photographs. But every person has different degrees of interest in what they do, I happen to enjoy throwing myself into things whole hog so to speak.
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howiesmith

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« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2007, 07:18:26 pm »

Quote from: idenford,Apr 30 2007, 05:09 PM
You miss the point of my joy, at what I enjoy, regardless of my passion which is different than a compulsion or obsession. Passion for something does not mean it is all about obession or compulsion although looking back on when I courted my wife, it was no less passionate for the sake of my obsession, so you miss the joy of my point. Anyway, let's drop this. Photography is a passion for me, which requires, I believe, a certain healthy obsession to learn, if a photographer wants to improve at their craft and create more interesting photographs. But every person has different degrees of interest in what they do, I happen to enjoy throwing myself into things whole hog so to speak.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115082\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quot

I'm sorry, but I was under the impression you were the one that said you were obsessive and compulsive about photography.  I guess I did  misunderstand.  I will drop it.  Can you forgive me?
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mtomalty

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« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2007, 11:17:01 pm »

Quote
If it gives you pleasure to be an asshole here, fine – just expect to be treated like one in return from now on. No one likes to be insulted in their own home, which is what this site is, so watch your step.



I wouldn't take him too seriously,Michael.

From what I've seen from some of his posts elsewhere he's been an asshole on multiple forums.


Mark
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iliosgallery

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« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2007, 09:09:29 pm »

Unfortunately, the initial theme of this thread has been derailed. And, as the first responder to Michael’s post, the ‘language of photography’, I feel some responsibility to 1) try to get it back on a track hopefully headed for higher ground and 2) expand on the concept of Equivalence/ Transcendence as defined by Minor White. The best way to achieve both aims is by introducing an example.

The following site shows a B&W photograph by W. Eugene Smith, a now deceased LIFE (magazine) photographer.

http://www.masters-of-photography.com/S/sm...amata_full.html

Now, WES would be the last guy on the face of this earth to declare himself a fine art photographer. He considered himself a hard working, dedicated photojournalist, an ordinary guy trying to make a living by telling stories by way of thematically related photographic images.

WES spent 1971-3 in the fishing village of Minamata, Japan where he documented the effects of mercury poisoning on its residents. This is probably the best know image from the resulting photo essay. On one level this picture is one in a documentary series revealing the tragic results of corporate wrong-doing. It cries out for social justice and demands an awakening of conscience. In some it may even arouse anger.

On closer look, and regardless of whether WES intended it or not, the image goes far beyond its photojournalistic style and social content. The mother’s gaze becomes the central theme and not the particular circumstances that brought her to the bath with her daughter. At the risk of seeming non-objective in an otherwise technically oriented forum, the essential theme of this picture is the profound unconditional regard radiating from mother to child. In the words of Paul Simon from the same LP that coincidentally brought us ‘Kodachrome’:

"Oh, my mama loves me.
She get down on her knees and hugs me.
She loves me like a rock.
She loves me like the rock of ages."

The radiant regard projected by mother gives infinite meaning and value to a seemingly barely human and wholly non-functioning being. Ryoko becomes the universal mother playing second fiddle possibly only to god in a solar symphony. Her gaze trumps social comment and breaths life into her damaged child. So, in the words of Minor White, Gene Smith in this image, has transcended his medium and subject matter to portray undying spirit.

This is one example of Equivalence or Transcendence. I could have picked an image by another photographer, famous or not, depictinging a natural landscape, nude or rusted truck. The important concept here is when you distill an image down what essence, if any, lives on beyond the paper it’s printed on? If an image is worth its salt, its afterlife supercedes its physical content. This is what I believe Minor White meant by Equivalence/ Transcedence.

Whether Gene Smith fully intended all of this doesn’t really matter. (In fact, his sole intention for setting up this bath scene complete with flash fill was to reveal the physical and mental devastation resulting from mercury poisoning. But what he accomplished went far beyond his initial aim and hence the huge international response to this image.) What is important is when one is consciously persistent for long enough one can achieve personal milestones and leap plateaus. This level of competence is not only a matter of will but grace.
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CodeFind

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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2007, 01:50:36 pm »

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wolfnowl

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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2007, 02:07:50 pm »

I don't know if this is on topic to iliosgallery's original intent or not, but Michael's article had me thinking back to my own learning about photography.  I started with 110 and 126 cameras because the film was cheap, and even without settings I could render something on film.  I borrowed my first 35mm from my dad, an Argus built in 1934 that had four f/stops and five shutter speeds and no light meter.  Focusing was an approximation and then set on the lens dial.  I didn't have a telephoto lens so I used to set up a pair of binoculars on a tripod and put the camera lens in the eyepiece to take pictures of birds and groundhogs.  Of course they were all horribly vignetted, but at the time it didn't matter.  I was about 14 or so...  

Often times I couldn't afford film so I would walk around the woods with my camera, composing pictures and figuring out how to light a scene, etc.  The flipside is that every image was, of course, perfect!  I bought the Life series books on photography, the Popular Photography series of magazine-type issues, and the seven resulting binders.  I also purchased books by Tim Fitzharris, Freeman Patterson and others whose work I admired.  Sometimes I would hang around camera stores and ask questions of the clerks who worked there.  

And at 17 I started selling cameras and records in a department store.  There was one clerk there who worked full time as a photo tech for the Armed Forces, and showing my work to him was a very hard lesson for me.  He flipped through the stack with barely a glance until he would stop at one that he thought had potential and show me how to crop it.  I still remember one custom 8x10 image of Wasaga Beach that I was quite proud of and had custom enlarged and retouched.  From 8 feet away he looked up and said, 'They do sloppy work, eh?'  But I learned a lot from Claude all the same and I appreciated his counsel.

So, I think I understand, at least for myself, what Michael had in mind with his article.  And it goes beyond f/stops and shutter speeds, and gets into the aesthetic of what photography really is.

Mike.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 02:08:24 pm by wolfnowl »
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