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Author Topic: CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000  (Read 7754 times)

paulbk

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« on: April 27, 2007, 08:03:54 pm »

re: Photoshop CS3 and Epson 4000

Anyone else having problems centering a print with Epson 4000?
In CS2 I check ‘center print’ in both dialogs, Photoshop print dialog and Epson 4000. And it works as expected. Not so in CS3???

Rant: Version 10 of an $800 program running on a very mature operating system (XP) should be near flawless. Release of Photoshop CS3 in it’s current build would be a crime in any other industry but cult software. Not centering prints is only one of many rough edges (V&V quality failures).
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 08:15:36 pm by paulbk »
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paul b.k.
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francois

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2007, 06:45:40 am »

Quote
re: Photoshop CS3 and Epson 4000

Anyone else having problems centering a print with Epson 4000?
In CS2 I check ‘center print’ in both dialogs, Photoshop print dialog and Epson 4000. And it works as expected. Not so in CS3???

Rant: Version 10 of an $800 program running on a very mature operating system (XP) should be near flawless. Release of Photoshop CS3 in it’s current build would be a crime in any other industry but cult software. Not centering prints is only one of many rough edges (V&V quality failures).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114629\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Paul,
I can't really help you but on the Mac, centered prints (at least on Epson printers) were never centered. They are printed centered on the page printable area.
Using custom page sizes is a easy work-around, not sure if it works on a Windows PC.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 06:46:06 am by francois »
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Francois

jani

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2007, 03:02:11 pm »

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Paul,
I can't really help you but on the Mac, centered prints (at least on Epson printers) were never centered. They are printed centered on the page printable area.
Using custom page sizes is a easy work-around, not sure if it works on a Windows PC.
I believe this is a known problem with the printing module of CS3; it shows exactly the same behaviour in CS3 on Windows and MacOS X on an R1800, while CS2 behaves nicely.

I have a feeling that the changes behind the scenes of Photoshop are quite substantial.

But see also the 0.55" bottom margin of the 4000 series ...
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Jan

Mark D Segal

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2007, 03:25:09 pm »

Paul, Francois and Jan,

We've been through PAGES of this topic here:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=16391

In particular see page 5 post #81 and check whether that helps you. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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jani

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2007, 04:21:39 pm »

Quote
Paul, Francois and Jan,

We've been through PAGES of this topic here:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=16391

In particular see page 5 post #81 and check whether that helps you. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.
Aha.

I just skipped that topic, because I've had absolutely no interest in installation problems. (I've had none, and I've been so low on spare time that I'm not inclined to look at others' installation problems, either.)

Perhaps if people were to use better topic texts for their posts, it would be easier to spot. When that warm, cozy place freezes completely over, I suppose.
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Mark D Segal

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2007, 11:21:40 pm »

Quote
Aha.

I just skipped that topic, because I've had absolutely no interest in installation problems. (I've had none, and I've been so low on spare time that I'm not inclined to look at others' installation problems, either.)

Perhaps if people were to use better topic texts for their posts, it would be easier to spot. When that warm, cozy place freezes completely over, I suppose.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116837\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Good point - centering prints isn't an installation issue. Key question - now that you've found it, does it help in your case?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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jani

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2007, 05:17:50 am »

Quote
Good point - centering prints isn't an installation issue. Key question - now that you've found it, does it help in your case?
I haven't had the time to dig through that large discussion thread and a bunch of the usual miscommunication with Jeff Schewe to find out yet. And unfortunately, IPB's search function really sucks for this kind of use.
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jani

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2007, 05:45:38 am »

What I failed to mention in my previous post, is that reading page 5 post #81 alone was insufficient to comprehend in which way your experiences may or may not have been relevant. The context is -- unfortunately -- necessary.

However, having trundled through most of the thread seems to have revealed/confirmed a few things:

1) You can get close to having centered prints with CS3, but it's unclear what work-arounds you need to do with which printers and paper types -- there's a lack of documentation from Adobe. "Maximize" or "minimize", are they available always?

2) Backwards interoperability between CS3 and CS2 seems slightly shadier than CS2 to CS or v7, but it's unclear whether this happens when "maximize compatibility" is turned on or not.

3) There seems to be a misunderstanding about the meaning of "default"  I.e.: fallback in case there are no other (sensible) settings; something you default to (Norwegian translators often confuse "default" with "standard", as the participants of the discussion apparently do too.)

4) CS3 is still in beta (i.e. is feature complete, but not essentially bug free), just like Lightroom. However, Adobe follows current "best" practice among software companies, and have substituted "beta" for "alpha" and "release" for "beta".  (Okay, the former "best" practice was to substitute "release candidate" for "beta", but we've now obviously progressed beyond the need for "release candidates", or they're simply not publicly known.) Whether this is good or bad is a matter of personal preference. Given the features of CS3, I'm glad that the software is available rather than having to wait. Others may feel differently.
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Mark D Segal

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2007, 08:06:40 am »

Quote
What I failed to mention in my previous post, is that reading page 5 post #81 alone was insufficient to comprehend in which way your experiences may or may not have been relevant. The context is -- unfortunately -- necessary.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117242\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The context of Post 81 is the information in Post 64 and 65: Windows XP SP2, Epson 4800. Needless to say, I have no way of knowing whether these tests are relevant to other operating systems and other versions of the Epson driver. I can only report my experience based on the equipment I own, and hope it is helpful to others.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Schewe

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2007, 01:24:29 pm »

Quote
However, having trundled through most of the thread seems to have revealed/confirmed a few things:
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117242\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually, no...the discussion had not "revealed/confirmed" any of what you stated...

#1-different drivers running under different OS's have different options. What CS3 does is _NOT_ try to slam the margins to maximum. CS2 did. The reason CS3 is NOT doing that is for compatibility with Vista. CS3 will center images when the page margins reported by the driver are equal. Otherwise, it will center images in the printable area and if that's off center, so will the prints. That ain't the fault of the app. And it's Standard or Maximum, not "Maximize" or "minimize".

#2-no different than any previous version...stuff in CS3 that CS2 doesn't understand won't work. Everything in CS2 file formats works in CS3. Not sure what the heck you're talking about here...

#3-Default is the settings in Photoshop at first launch...toss the preferences and that's what it returns to. As to "default behavior"...that's the fundamental intended behavior of the app. That can change, version to version.

#4-Photoshop CS3 ain't beta dooode...and what documented bugs? You found any? Adobe would like to know them. Changes in "default" (see #3) don't count as "bugs". Bridge 2 is pretty rough but Photoshop CS3 is, by all accounts pretty solid. The only known issue is a conflict with MSFT IntelliPoint version 6.1 (which Adobe is pretty sure is caused by the driver doing the "wrong" thing).
« Last Edit: May 13, 2007, 01:26:30 pm by Schewe »
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Mark D Segal

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2007, 04:24:39 pm »

Referring back to the discussion of print centering in the "CS3 Installation Nightmare" thread, I received a private email from a Forum member using WINXP and an Epson 9800 telling me that the fix of selecting "Maximum" in the Paper tab of the Epson driver did not work satisfactorily, because when printed this way in CS3 the image came out looking "cropped" or "enlarged" by about an eighth of an inch. I assume the print size was large but he did not specify.

Therefore I considered it necessary to verify whether the fix that emerged from the work Jeff and I did - mine reported in post 81 of that thread - had this side effect on my set-up, WINXP with an Epson 4800. I snapped a shot of my bookshelves, so I could see very closely from the subject matter whether there would be any difference of material printed, and I ran two letter-size prints (coverage of 9 inches by 5.988 inches from a Canon 1Ds file at native resolution redimensioned but not resampled) as follows:

[a] print from CS3 with the Epson driver Paper tab set to Maximum and
print from CS2 in the usual way with the Epson driver Paper tab set to Standard.

I am pleased to observe that both prints are centered, identical with each other and identical with the image shown in Photoshop on the monitor.

It does appear to be the case however that the fix in posts 81 may not work uniformly well with every version of the Epson driver within the pre-3800 X800 series printers.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Mark D Segal

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2007, 11:04:49 pm »

I have added observations on my efforts to get centered prints through a printing Action I developed that works perfectly well with CS2 but is a disaster in CS3 even after being modified for CS3. Details are in the linked thread, Post 126:

Post 126 "Nightmare" thread
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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jani

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2007, 04:15:13 am »

Quote
Actually, no...the discussion had not "revealed/confirmed" any of what you stated...

#1-different drivers running under different OS's have different options. What CS3 does is _NOT_ try to slam the margins to maximum. CS2 did. The reason CS3 is NOT doing that is for compatibility with Vista. CS3 will center images when the page margins reported by the driver are equal. Otherwise, it will center images in the printable area and if that's off center, so will the prints. That ain't the fault of the app. And it's Standard or Maximum, not "Maximize" or "minimize".
In note #85, you CLEARLY cite the following:

Quote
In the 2200 this means that the user needs to click the "Centered" and/or "Minimize Margins" check boxes in the printer's "Page Layout" properties panel to get truly centered prints.

Quote
#2-no different than any previous version...stuff in CS3 that CS2 doesn't understand won't work. Everything in CS2 file formats works in CS3. Not sure what the heck you're talking about here...
I'm referring to Mark's experiences regarding his attempts to print files in CS2 after they were edited in CS3.

Quote
#3-Default is the settings in Photoshop at first launch...toss the preferences and that's what it returns to. As to "default behavior"...that's the fundamental intended behavior of the app. That can change, version to version.
This is exactly the fundamental misunderstanding of the term "default" that I was referring to.

Use the word "standard" if you mean "standard", not "default".

Quote
#4-Photoshop CS3 ain't beta dooode...
That's right, it's not called "beta".
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Jan

Roy

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2007, 12:23:33 am »

What a depressingly amusing and typical discussion.

All those who have filed a bug report with Adobe please stand up. Anyone? OK, I see.

The response to my bug report was: "We did update the printing code for CS3 and it looks like this bug was introduced when updating that code..." The engineer who responded asked for more info and that I try some things.

So Adobe knows and wants to help. But Adobe doesn't read the grumbling on LLS forum. Adobe reads bug reports and responds. What more could you ask for. Perfect software? Get a life. Anyone drive an early Dodge Caravan? You get my point. At least Adobe tries to help.

Own a product and have a problem? Take some responsibility for your life and ask for a fix.

No, I'm not a total fan of Adobe. I just had a terrible experience with sales in doing a cross-platform upgrade, but it worked out and once I found the right person, it was great. But I had to make the effort to find the person.

This is an imperfect world.

File a bug report. Then go take some photographs.
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Roy

mrbuk2001

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2007, 12:38:40 am »

It's not just the 4000.  I have a Epson 3800pro that has the same problem with CS3.  CS2 was perfect, but CS3 broke the "borderless" feature with "retain" for a resizing option.

Specifically, when I print borderless with the "retain" resize option, the print comes out cropped in the left and top side, and a white border on the right and bottom side.  If I let the driver expand to "min", "mid", or "max", it works fine, but I don't like that, because the driver increases the dpi of the photo to 363, 365, and 369 dpi respectively before printing with those options (according to Google Picasa).

I entered a bug report with Adobe and it took them 3 weeks to even acknowledge it.  Who knows when they will get around to testing or fixing it.  For now, I use my old install of CS2 for all my borderless prints which is a big time suck.....

Mike
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paulbk

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2007, 03:34:58 am »

I entered a bug report back in April, support request #172594102. At that time they were still in denial. But I know that sooner or later Adobe will get the message.

I grumble here because I can.

p
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paul b.k.
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Mark D Segal

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2007, 08:45:34 am »

Quote
What a depressingly amusing and typical discussion.

All those who have filed a bug report with Adobe please stand up. Anyone? OK, I see.

The response to my bug report was: "We did update the printing code for CS3 and it looks like this bug was introduced when updating that code..." The engineer who responded asked for more info and that I try some things.

So Adobe knows and wants to help. But Adobe doesn't read the grumbling on LLS forum. Adobe reads bug reports and responds. What more could you ask for. Perfect software? Get a life. Anyone drive an early Dodge Caravan? You get my point. At least Adobe tries to help.

Own a product and have a problem? Take some responsibility for your life and ask for a fix.

No, I'm not a total fan of Adobe. I just had a terrible experience with sales in doing a cross-platform upgrade, but it worked out and once I found the right person, it was great. But I had to make the effort to find the person.

This is an imperfect world.

File a bug report. Then go take some photographs.
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Is it really an imperfect world? I would never have surmised...............

Heavens, do you really expect me to take responsibility for my life? What have I been doing for the past XX years.....................(well, OK, there was an early period when my parents were responsible I suppose)............

If you have been understanding this discussion, you may have observed that there was considerable debate here about whether the configuration of the CS3 Print module is buggy or designed the way it is on purpose. I initially thought it was buggy, but Jeff Schewe introduced considerations which strongly suggest that it was by design for the reasons he cited. Then the discussion shifted to whether these were good design decisions, or whether it could have/should have been done better/differently - and more specifically as Jan and I have been suggesting, whether the module needs to be made configurable given the design issues at hand. That I think is a legitimate discussion, but not something that belongs in a "bug" report. And it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not one is a "fan of Adobe" - this isn't a Pop Star contest, it's about the functionality of a software module.

As for where this dialogue is occuring, it is a bit presumptuous of you to think that people who are either within Adobe or accessible to it do not read these Forums - especially Luminous-Landscape, which has one of the largest readership of any internet photography resource on the planet.

And finally, thank you for telling me to take some photographs. I"ll take that under advisement.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Schewe

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2007, 12:05:15 pm »

Quote
especially Luminous-Landscape, which has one of the largest readership of any internet photography resource on the planet.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117664\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Actually, I think that title falls to DPReview/Amazon (since Phil sold it)

Too bad Michael doesn't need the money-maybe he could sell out to Google...
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Ken Doo

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CS3 not centering Print Epson 4000
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2007, 01:33:09 pm »

Thank you MarkDS for your extensive efforts in addressing the CS3 "center" print issue.

I have a new Dell XPS (less than a month old), 4GB RAM on Windows XP Pro.  (I specifically requested XP over Vista pending growing pains).  CS3 is by far a much better program than CS2---but the failure to "center" prints is a major issue.  I use an Epson 9800.

I tried setting "maximize" under Page set-up---with only marginally satisfactory results.  I am preparing some competition prints----and yes, verified that the final cropping on the image does indeed change, albeit slightly.  This is a problem when printing to the edge!  (This was on a 10" roll for an 8x10 image).  So the problem is going to arise that I'm not going to be able to print a true 24"x30" image on a 24" roll of media.  Not acceptable to me.  And no---I'm not going to use a 44" roll to print a 24" portrait....  I liken the situation to sending a print job to a commercial printer and being instructed not to have vital print items near the bleed.

I really don't care who is at fault---I just want to be able to print as I did before.  And all I do know at this point is that CS3 is the only thing that has changed-----and won't "center" the print when I click "center" the print.  I don't care to hear the excuses, cross-platforms, engineering geek-speak, etc.  I don't want work-arounds.  I don't want to print using other programs (aka CS2).  All I know is that Adobe has a great program with some really upset customers.

Just fix-it....
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