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Author Topic: Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look  (Read 20267 times)

Nill Toulme

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« on: April 22, 2007, 05:10:41 pm »

Rob has today published an extensive first look article on the Mark III.

Nill
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Ray

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2007, 10:21:15 pm »

Interesting! Nikon users take note of the following.

Quote
Of the two dominant digital SLR brands - Canon and Nikon - it's Canon that already produces cameras with the best high-ISO image quality and the most natural-looking darker tones. At ISO 800 and above it's no contest really, and the EOS-1D Mark III only widens the gap further. This camera produces images with the smoothest shadow gradations we've seen in a digital SLR from the two makers. Shadow naturalness is still decent at ISO 3200, which is a first to our eyes. Combine that with lower noise levels at all ISOs, and especially those at the top of the camera's range, and the result is a noticeably better image file whether you shoot at ISO 100 or ISO 3200 all day long.

Comparing photos of the same scenes from the EOS-1D Mark III and EOS-1D Mark II N, both on-screen and in 16 x 24 inch prints, we see almost a full stop improvement in noise levels at the upper ISO settings. But if you factor in shadow naturalness - which impacts the quality of high-ISO photos almost as much as noise when it's time to print them - plus, the fact that the EOS-1D Mark III doesn't seem to show the same faint bands that sometimes crop up at higher ISOs with the EOS-1D Mark II N, and the improvement is probably more like 1.5 stops.

I sometimes love stirring the pot   .
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Christopher

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2007, 04:37:10 am »

Quote
Interesting! Nikon users take note of the following.
I sometimes love stirring the pot   .
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113715\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I  think Canon really made something good here. I mean the ISO performence is fantastic. Now just give me a 1DsMkIII
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Christopher Hauser
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John Camp

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2007, 07:14:28 am »

This does look like a great camera, but they just keep getting heavier -- it's five or six ounces heavier than a D2x, which I thought was already a beast; and with the heavier Canon lenses to capture the same field of view, the difference is even greater. In fact, it's only ~ half a pound lighter than an H3D including digital back. When the D3x come out, I hope they go the other way: I'd like to see them cut a few ounces off.

JC
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Tim Gray

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2007, 09:49:35 am »

Quote
This does look like a great camera, but they just keep getting heavier -- it's five or six ounces heavier than a D2x, which I thought was already a beast; and with the heavier Canon lenses to capture the same field of view, the difference is even greater. In fact, it's only ~ half a pound lighter than an H3D including digital back. When the D3x come out, I hope they go the other way: I'd like to see them cut a few ounces off.

JC
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113760\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


But still a tad lighter than the 1d2n
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ARCASWISS

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2007, 10:01:36 am »

It's tough for a landscape shooter to find much pleasure in another (albeit near perfect) 10 megapixel camera.
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KenRexach

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2007, 10:43:10 am »

It wouldve been nice for Canon to make the 1Dmk3 12mp instead of 10, yes, not much difference but marketing wise it gives the body more longevity since there are plenty of 10mp DSLRs out there.

Image quality wise the 1Dmk3 has nothing on the 5D from what ive seen. \

Naturally the 1Dmk3 as a package is impressive, it has many improvements in a lot of areas, lcd, speed, configurability, live view, seonsor clean, wireless capability etc...

So for now Im keeping my 5D and 1Dmk2 combo. Il wait for the 1DsMk3...and wait...
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Christopher

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2007, 12:07:30 pm »

Quote
It wouldve been nice for Canon to make the 1Dmk3 12mp instead of 10, yes, not much difference but marketing wise it gives the body more longevity since there are plenty of 10mp DSLRs out there.

Image quality wise the 1Dmk3 has nothing on the 5D from what ive seen. \

Naturally the 1Dmk3 as a package is impressive, it has many improvements in a lot of areas, lcd, speed, configurability, live view, seonsor clean, wireless capability etc...

So for now Im keeping my 5D and 1Dmk2 combo. Il wait for the 1DsMk3...and wait...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113784\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, and Canon is not planing on keeping that camera so long, you will see we will get a new fast camera before the Olympics, perhaps 16MP FF.
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Christopher Hauser
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Tim Gray

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2007, 12:10:32 pm »

I suppose the AF problem mentioned by RG is largely responsible for the slip in shipping dates.

It wasn't clear from his article, but I would guess that you don't need the wireless WFT-E2/E2A to connect a USB drive?  This just made field storage a lot easier since I don't need to duplicate PDA's to get field backups (I don't own a notebook) and you could (I assume) read the pictures back from the usb drive to ensure they were captured...

I get decent 17x25's out of my 1d2 - decent, but not great...  I think 12 mpx would have been the tipping point for me, but I'll print out some of RG's samples and take a look.

OT a bit, but it was cool to see Calgary (where I grew up) as the location for his shots, I actually recognized the building in downtown in the crane shot!
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djgarcia

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2007, 06:03:58 pm »

1Ds Mk III this summer, PLEASE! I'm pathetically drooling ...
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Over-Equipped Snapshooter - EOS 1dsII &

Tim Gray

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2007, 08:18:09 pm »

Quote
1Ds Mk III this summer, PLEASE! I'm pathetically drooling ...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113865\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If you're willing to come to Toronto to collect, I'll bet you a beer, no announcement before end of Sept and no delivery before the end of Nov.
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djgarcia

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2007, 08:47:46 pm »

Oh, c'mon Tim! You're so negative! You know these people always deliver before the expected announce date!  

That was wishful pleading and whining, not a prediction, though I wouldn't mind going to Toronto and hang - it's a great city. Unfotunately I have to go keep going to work and show sufficient ROI to my employers so they'll keep me at least until after I've paid for the danged thing, whenever it does come out.
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macgyver

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2007, 10:44:58 pm »

Look at the ISO!  That 3200 is amazing and the 6400 isn't bad either.

I hope this signals a shift in the manufacturers away from the megapixel race to perfecting the MP counts already there.  (Yes, I know this is blasphey to say on a landscape board).
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BernardLanguillier

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2007, 11:11:27 pm »

Quote
I hope this signals a shift in the manufacturers away from the megapixel race to perfecting the MP counts already there.  (Yes, I know this is blasphey to say on a landscape board).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113913\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Landscape shooters are in need for DR as much as resolution, but a lot less in need of clean high ISO.

My guess is that both Canon with its 1ds3 and Nikon with its D3x will increase the MP a bit, but focus mostly enhanced DR and transitions to highlights.

Cheers,
Bernard

djgarcia

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2007, 11:13:56 pm »

Quote
I hope this signals a shift in the manufacturers away from the megapixel race to perfecting the MP counts already there.  (Yes, I know this is blasphey to say on a landscape board).
No blasphemy at all. Sure, more megapixels is good, but not at the expense of dynamic range, low noise, etc. But of course we'd rather have the low noise, high dynamic range, AND more megapixels  ...
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Ron Steinberg

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2007, 09:20:03 am »

Quote
If you're willing to come to Toronto to collect, I'll bet you a beer, no announcement before end of Sept and no delivery before the end of Nov.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113884\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

New announcements 3rd week of August. Most likely a 30D replacement, and one other body, don't know if it will be a 5D or 1 series replacement.
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BJL

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2007, 02:13:48 pm »

Quote
I hope this signals a shift in the manufacturers away from the megapixel race to perfecting the MP counts already there.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113913\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Given that the 1D MkIII sensor both reduces noise levels and increases resolution by decreasing photosite size, I would instead hope (and expect) that it signals a continuation of the trend to improve both resolution and visible noise levels, not some totally lop-sized obsession with noise levels at high ISO as the most important measure of a camera's virtue.

Surely it is clear that a lot of high end photography has a significant need for more than 10MP, and that for many photographic situations, higher resolution is more important than the extremes of high speed, low-light ISO performance. 10MP does not meet the resolution needs that lead many photographers to often choose high resolution, low speed, low dynamic range films like Velvia.

Indeed, given the need in this sport/PJ oriented camera for high frame rates and the ability to achieve high shutter speeds in sometimes limited light, it is to be expected that its design will lean toward fewer, larger photosites than in most other cameras. This has been a consistent distinction of all three 1D series sensors. It seems clear to me that upgrades to high end models (not to mention some of this year's new advanced amateur models) will to offer increased resolution, to beyond 10MP and even perhaps beyond 20MP, as a major selling point.

My predictions for later this year include 12MP or more with quite good noise levels at up to ISO 1600 in advanced amateur "APS-C" format DSLRs at under US$2,000. In particular, in a Sony CMOS sensor evolving from its now almost three year old D2X sensor. Probably from Canon too, but as usual Canon gives away fewer hints of its plans. And this will soon enough push the resolution asked of entry-level 35mm format DSLR's beyond the 5D's 12.7MP.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 02:18:25 pm by BJL »
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feppe

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2007, 03:26:02 pm »

Quote
It seems clear to me that upgrades to high end models (not to mention some of this year's new advanced amateur models) will to offer increased resolution, to beyond 10MP and even perhaps beyond 20MP, as a major selling point.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114041\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wonder if 20MP brings any real detail advantage over 8-12MP with 35mm format lenses. Last time I was seriously concerned about megapixels (5 years ago) I did quite a bit of reading on the subject and came to the layman's conclusion that 8MP is enough to bring out all useful detail in the vast majority of real-life situations - ie. real subjects, available light, no tripod, non-controlled environment. Therefore I waited until an 8MP dSLR became reasonably priced, and 30D was just that.

I'm sure studio or tripodded landscape photographers can get more than that out of the finest SLR glass, but just how much? 12MP? 20MP? 30MP?

I would much prefer to get more shadow detail out of my 30D. I shoot a lot of long exposures (30+ seconds) in low light, and bracketing and digital blending is a must if I want to get good results.

Tim Gray

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2007, 04:20:00 pm »

Quote
I wonder if 20MP brings any real detail advantage over 8-12MP with 35mm format lenses. Last time I was seriously concerned about megapixels (5 years ago) I did quite a bit of reading on the subject and came to the layman's conclusion that 8MP is enough to bring out all useful detail in the vast majority of real-life situations - ie. real subjects, available light, no tripod, non-controlled environment. Therefore I waited until an 8MP dSLR became reasonably priced, and 30D was just that.

I'm sure studio or tripodded landscape photographers can get more than that out of the finest SLR glass, but just how much? 12MP? 20MP? 30MP?

I would much prefer to get more shadow detail out of my 30D. I shoot a lot of long exposures (30+ seconds) in low light, and bracketing and digital blending is a must if I want to get good results.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Just as a reminder of what's available here:

[a href=\"http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/back-testing.shtml]http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/back-testing.shtml[/url]

compares 1ds @ 11mpx all the way up to a P45 at 39mpx  plus scanned LF film
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feppe

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Rob Galbraith 1D Mark III First Look
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2007, 05:08:01 pm »

Quote
Just as a reminder of what's available here:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/back-testing.shtml

compares 1ds @ 11mpx all the way up to a P45 at 39mpx  plus scanned LF film
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114072\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, had forgotten about that test. To my eyes the difference between the 11 and 16MP Canons is largely academic and only obvious when pixel-peeping. This is especially so in the field - this shoot is obviously the absolute best-case scenario. It certainly doesn't come even close to the environment I shoot in (available light and/or handheld).
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