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Author Topic: Phatte Black  (Read 4507 times)

Stephen G

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Phatte Black
« on: April 12, 2007, 05:54:22 am »

Hi, I am a digital printer in South Africa. I have just acquired an Epson 9800 and I'm in the process of deciding which RIP to use. I would appreciate ANY comments or shared experiences on using Colorbyte's Imageprint, especially the Phatte Black system.

In particular: Are BW prints using Phatte black (glossy or matte) sellable? are they good enough? There must be some kind of difference between using and losing the LLK cartridge, but how much of a difference is it?

ElSteev
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frankric

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Phatte Black
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2007, 07:05:41 am »

I've been using a 7800 since November '05. For the first few months I used the Epson driver, then went to Image Print specifically because of the Phatte Black system.

I'd say there is no visible difference between using LLK or Phatte Black on matte paper, which is what I use mostly. Primarily Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308. I reckoned I could pick a difference between the LLK and Phatte Black on gloss papers - a little more bronzing mainly.

The beauty is, however that once you have the Phatte Black system installed, you can easily swap from MK to LLK and back with minimal ink wastage. So you've got the best of both worlds. Use matte or gloss without changing anything, or if you want the ulimate print quality on glossy, swap the MK for the LLK, print the purge file and use the 3 blacks.

Of course I would have much preferred that Epson had installed all the inks, but that's another story.

Regards

Frank
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Charles Gast

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Phatte Black
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2007, 09:16:46 am »

I used the IP RIP with phatte black and found it to be *the* solution.  There is Zero ink waste when switching blacks. You just use the proper profile and it uses the matte or photo ink as required. The 3800 apparently wastes a small amount of ink when switching.  The ink is not wasted at all with the phatte system.
I could sometimes see a very very slight difference when printing on Pictorico High Gloss Film.  I had two prints side by side where I had printed one before phatte and one with all the usual Epson carts in place. When viewing them at a very low angle with the light in just the right place one had a slight increase in gloss differential. You could see it on both prints though and it was difficult to visualize in the first place. I could not see a difference on matte or luster papers.
With the Epsons that require ink swaps to go from matte to photo paper IP Phatte is the only way to go..
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Mussi_Spectraflow

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Phatte Black
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2007, 04:42:51 pm »

I'll second the previous comments. I have IP and a 9800 for my personal work and have found it a wonderfull solution. If you require the ability to print to matte and RC papers interchangably than there are few other option out there. As far as the quality goes, there is a very very slight amount of added bronzing. For me this was not an issue since I spray coat all my images anyway(I'm very picky when it comes to bronzing and found the K3 in their default state to sometimes still exhibit to much bronzing for my taste) I would give it two thumbs based on it's ability to solve what I consider a serious drawback for fine art printers working with Epson LFP's. The only problem is a logistical one, as you have to source your re-chipped ink carts from a handfull of vendors.

Julian Mussi
www.spectraflow.com
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Julian Mussi
 Spectraflow, Color Workflow

frankric

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Phatte Black
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2007, 04:08:32 am »

Quote
... The only problem is a logistical one, as you have to source your re-chipped ink carts from a handfull of vendors.

Julian Mussi
www.spectraflow.com
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It's not essential to buy the re-chipped cartridges - they may not be readily available to the OP. They weren't available here when I purchased IP, so I bought a chip resetter such as this one [a href=\"http://www.inksupply.com/sk188.cfm]http://www.inksupply.com/sk188.cfm[/url] . Then removed the chip from a new MK cart and replaced it with an LLK chip from a used cart, which I then reset. Just keep reusing this chip for each new MK cart.

Regards

Frank
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jschone

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Phatte Black
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2007, 05:20:57 pm »

I use phatte with the 9800 daily. Papers I use are:

-hanhnem. fine art pearl
-hahn. photo rag
-hanh. photo rag pearl 320
-hahn. photo rag brght wht
-hahn. canvas matte
-hahn. canvas satin
-Epson Premium Luster 260
-Breathing Color Vibrance Gloss


The new Hahn. FAP and Photo Rag pearl, print very nice, but have some problems with bronzing under tungsten light.(especially BW images, printed with IP gray profile). Premium luster has less problems under tungsten. Daylight is the contrary: Luster shows more bronzing then FAP and PRP. ( Litlle spray will solve the problem for all 3 papers, but I dislike (understatement) to spray prints (smell, health, uniformity etc.))
BC Vibrance gloss actually prints very good, similar to Epson prem. glossy, but less bronzing. But not a paper I use on a daily basis. These prints are usually mounted under plexi, because of the (non)texture. Ok but not perfect.
Luster 260 is very nice and price wise an attractive paper with phatte black. FAP ad PRP are fantastic but need more attention.

Alll other papers mentioned print without bronzing as to be expected...

For the moment I use the FAP profile for Photo rag pearl. I sent Imageprint some sheets yesterday, to get a profile for PRP

Curiuous to know other experiences with FAP, PRP, crane mus. silv. rag, or Innova similar.. espec. with Phatte installed

Jochem
« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 05:24:53 pm by jschone »
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eleanorbrown

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Phatte Black
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2007, 08:31:27 pm »

I've used Phatte black with my 7800 and with matte papers you can see absolutely no difference.  With photo black papers there is no difference in color and tone but you will get bronzing and the prints all need to be sprayed to eliminate the bronzing.  I got tired of the bronzing and spraying all my photo black prints so now I'm back to using photo black with the three K3 black inks and have dedicated my printer to photo black papers---the new Crane Silver rag, the new Innova offerings and the latest Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl (I don't like the Hahnemuhle Fine art pearl).  When printing the purge file you don't waste a lot of black ink when going from light light black to matte black but when going from matte black (Phatte black system)  back to using only Photo black (three black inks) you waste HUGE, AND I MEAN HUGE amounts of light light black ink because it takes purging a lot of the light light black ink through the ink line to eliminate ALL the matte black from the line.  Be prepared to loose a lot of light light black ink in the process. and be forewarned that you will think you have gotten all the matte black ink out of your light light black ink line, but you probably haven't.  You will need to do a lot of purging.

eleanor
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Stephen G

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Phatte Black
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2007, 05:59:23 am »

[For me this was not an issue since I spray coat all my images anyway(I'm very picky when it comes to bronzing and found the K3 in their default state to sometimes still exhibit to much bronzing for my taste) ]

Thanks Julian, and others for the comments, much appreciated. It's good to be able to tap in to some practical experience. What spray coatings would you recommend?
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Craig Murphy

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Phatte Black
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2007, 10:09:12 am »

How do you change the chips on the cartridges?  Do you just peel them off then restick one back on with contact cement or something similar?
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CMurph

frankric

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Phatte Black
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2007, 11:37:17 am »

Quote
How do you change the chips on the cartridges?  Do you just peel them off then restick one back on with contact cement or something similar?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=112847\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Craig

I just carefully prise the original chip off with a sharp instrument and the replacement chip clips in fairly securely without any adhesive. They seem to be stuck in originally, but I've had no trouble with just pushing it home.

Regards

Frank
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