Contax 645/P45 Test Drive

[Mort54]

Well, I got a chance to test drive a P45 back on a Contax 645 body today. My quick summary:
     - P45 image quality is superb and exceeded my expectations. Images were exceptionally sharp right out of the back with no sharpening applied.
     - The Contax 645 was somewhat disappointing (there were extenuating circumstances however)
     - The back behaved miserably, but I now believe this was caused by a problem with the body and not a problem with the back per-se.

So much for the quick summary. Now for the good and the bad. Unfortunately, Murphy was feeling frisky today and almost everything that could have gone wrong did. So my test ended up leaving me feeling very confused and frustrated, instead of informed and enlightened.

First, it rained almost all day, and sometimes it poured cats and dogs. During the few moments it wasn't raining, the wind was blowing very hard, which makes it difficult to test sharpness. I only got about an hour to actually use the camera as a result.

Second, the Contax body they loaned me had problems. The metering seemed off, sometimes by as much as two stops. And it had some kind of electrical problem which I never did fully sort out. It hung on me twice, requiring me to pull all the batteries out, and there seemed to be a problem with the exposure mode knob which seemed to freak out the back (see below). Unfortunately, I didn't localize the problem to this knob until the rain became continuous. Bottom line, the back acted horribly most of the time, and I belatedly discovered that if I jiggled the exposure selection knob, I could make the back problem go away. But by then the rain had started with a vengence and it was too late to do anything about it. Before someone draws the conclusion that the body problems were caused by the rain, let me assure you they weren't. I was using $40K worth of equipment that didn't belong to me, and I wasn't about to get it wet. And I didn't. The few times I got caught out in the rain, I was within a few steps of cover.

Third, for reasons which I think were caused by the body (see above), I'd say at least 90% of the shots I attempted were corrupted. The display showed nothing but purple globs and streaks, and showed the same when opened in Capture One. Very frustrating. I spent most of the hour I had without rain troubleshooting the body and the back. But I did manage to get twelve shots, half of which were poorly exposed because of the metering issue I mentioned. But the six good shots I got look spectacular.

So much for the extenuating circumstances. What were my other conclusions? Here are my thoughts in no particular order.

The Contax 645 viewfinder was disappointing. It didn't seem any brighter than my D2X viewfinder (don't get me wrong - my D2X has a nice bright viewfinder - but I was expecting something spectacular on a MF camera, and I just didn't see anything special on the Contax). I shot with an 80mm f/2 lens, so if it's not going to be bright with an f/2 lens, what's it going to be like with a slower lens. Yikes!! Granted, it was a dreary day out. Maybe I would have a better feeling about it if the day had been brighter.

The mirror up button is a joke. Too small and too recessed.

The 2 degree spot metering circle seems too big. I would have preferred a 1 degree spot.

I thought I would enjoy the retro dials and knobs on the body. Honestly, I didn't. The compensation dial was very mushy feeling. And adjusting the exposure mode is very finnicky (don't try it with gloves). I did very much like the ease with which I could disable autofocus on the shutter release button, and the ease with which I could lock my last measured exposure value.

Unless my memory has totally failed me, the aperture ring on the lens only allowed me to adjust aperture in whole stops (I've given the camera back already so I can't see if my memory is correct). As Charlie Brown would say - "Good Grief". I guess I've gotten spoiled by being able to adjust aperture in 1/3 stops on my Nikon.

The body, even with the vertical grip attached, was smaller than I expected it to be. It was also heavier than I would have thought for the size. I guess using metal instead of plastic has a cost, and that cost is weight.

The screen on the P45 was acceptable. I really only need to see the histogram, and for that, it's good enough. In any event, the screen in the + backs are supposedly much improved.

So, the bottom line is that I am impressed with the P45 image quality (no surprise there). I wish I hadn't encountered all of the problems, since it left a sour taste in my mouth. But like I said, I'm fairly convinced now that the back problems were caused by an electrical problem in the body. And finally, to my surprise, I feel somewhat disappointed in the Contax body. I really thought I'd like it more than I did. The problems I encountered are probably part of the reason. And it was an old tired body (probably an old rental unit). Maybe I'd feel different with a new one in my hands.

Regards,
Hans.

[william]

Hans,

Interesting, thanks.  I've never experienced any of the lockups, exposure problems, and corrupted files you described with my Contax/P30 combo. But your experience is of course what's important. I will just note that such mechanical issues are far from endemic with Contax.

I agree that the viewfinder isn't spectacularly bright and that the exposure mode dial has a VERY small locking latch that makes it difficult to change exposure modes unless you're really used to it (and don't have super big hands). I've never had an issue with the mirror lockup or size of the spot metering circle.  To each his own.

The aperture dial can be adjusted in at least half stops; while there's no positive detent to indicate it, it is visible in the in-camera meter in the viewfinder.

Well, I got a chance to test drive a P45 back on a Contax 645 body today. My quick summary:
     - P45 image quality is superb and exceeded my expectations. Images were exceptionally sharp right out of the back with no sharpening applied.
     - The Contax 645 was somewhat disappointing (there were extenuating circumstances however)
     - The back behaved miserably, but I now believe this was caused by a problem with the body and not a problem with the back per-se.

So much for the quick summary. Now for the good and the bad. Unfortunately, Murphy was feeling frisky today and almost everything that could have gone wrong did. So my test ended up leaving me feeling very confused and frustrated, instead of informed and enlightened.

First, it rained almost all day, and sometimes it poured cats and dogs. During the few moments it wasn't raining, the wind was blowing very hard, which makes it difficult to test sharpness. I only got about an hour to actually use the camera as a result.

Second, the Contax body they loaned me had problems. The metering seemed off, sometimes by as much as two stops. And it had some kind of electrical problem which I never did fully sort out. It hung on me twice, requiring me to pull all the batteries out, and there seemed to be a problem with the exposure mode knob which seemed to freak out the back (see below). Unfortunately, I didn't localize the problem to this knob until the rain became continuous. Bottom line, the back acted horribly most of the time, and I belatedly discovered that if I jiggled the exposure selection knob, I could make the back problem go away. But by then the rain had started with a vengence and it was too late to do anything about it. Before someone draws the conclusion that the body problems were caused by the rain, let me assure you they weren't. I was using $40K worth of equipment that didn't belong to me, and I wasn't about to get it wet. And I didn't. The few times I got caught out in the rain, I was within a few steps of cover.

Third, for reasons which I think were caused by the body (see above), I'd say at least 90% of the shots I attempted were corrupted. The display showed nothing but purple globs and streaks, and showed the same when opened in Capture One. Very frustrating. I spent most of the hour I had without rain troubleshooting the body and the back. But I did manage to get twelve shots, half of which were poorly exposed because of the metering issue I mentioned. But the six good shots I got look spectacular.

So much for the extenuating circumstances. What were my other conclusions? Here are my thoughts in no particular order.

The Contax 645 viewfinder was disappointing. It didn't seem any brighter than my D2X viewfinder (don't get me wrong - my D2X has a nice bright viewfinder - but I was expecting something spectacular on a MF camera, and I just didn't see anything special on the Contax). I shot with an 80mm f/2 lens, so if it's not going to be bright with an f/2 lens, what's it going to be like with a slower lens. Yikes!! Granted, it was a dreary day out. Maybe I would have a better feeling about it if the day had been brighter.

The mirror up button is a joke. Too small and too recessed.

The 2 degree spot metering circle seems too big. I would have preferred a 1 degree spot.

I thought I would enjoy the retro dials and knobs on the body. Honestly, I didn't. The compensation dial was very mushy feeling. And adjusting the exposure mode is very finnicky (don't try it with gloves). I did very much like the ease with which I could disable autofocus on the shutter release button, and the ease with which I could lock my last measured exposure value.

Unless my memory has totally failed me, the aperture ring on the lens only allowed me to adjust aperture in whole stops (I've given the camera back already so I can't see if my memory is correct). As Charlie Brown would say - "Good Grief". I guess I've gotten spoiled by being able to adjust aperture in 1/3 stops on my Nikon.

The body, even with the vertical grip attached, was smaller than I expected it to be. It was also heavier than I would have thought for the size. I guess using metal instead of plastic has a cost, and that cost is weight.

The screen on the P45 was acceptable. I really only need to see the histogram, and for that, it's good enough. In any event, the screen in the + backs are supposedly much improved.

So, the bottom line is that I am impressed with the P45 image quality (no surprise there). I wish I hadn't encountered all of the problems, since it left a sour taste in my mouth. But like I said, I'm fairly convinced now that the back problems were caused by an electrical problem in the body. And finally, to my surprise, I feel somewhat disappointed in the Contax body. I really thought I'd like it more than I did. The problems I encountered are probably part of the reason. And it was an old tired body (probably an old rental unit). Maybe I'd feel different with a new one in my hands.

Regards,
Hans.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111938\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Mort54]

I will just note that such mechanical issues are far from endemic with Contax.

I totally agree. As I mentioned, it was a tired old body. Who knows what kind of abuse its had.

[stevecoleccs]

I totally agree. As I mentioned, it was a tired old body. Who knows what kind of abuse its had.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111947\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I too tested the Contax today but with a P30 - Alsome results with the camera
& P30, although I thought the files will be cleaner at iso400 - back to the Contax,
a true workhorse & a battery eater, I wonder if you had a fresh cr2 battery in the contax
would it have work better (except for the viewfinder brightness)  - on a low battery
it will be quarkie, there is no "low battery warning" signal.

[Mort54]

I too tested the Contax today but with a P30 - Alsome results with the camera
& P30, although I thought the files will be cleaner at iso400 - back to the Contax,
a true workhorse & a battery eater, I wonder if you had a fresh cr2 battery in the contax
would it have work better (except for the viewfinder brightness)  - on a low battery
it will be quarkie, there is no "low battery warning" signal.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111960\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The batteries had supposedly been fully charged the day before by the dealer. The battery indicator showed full. Besides, I don't think low batteries would explain why jiggeling one of the knobs would make the problem come and go. But I can't say for sure. My guess is that it was simply an old body that had seen a lot of wear and tear, and maybe the contacts associated with the exposure mode knob had worn and were making poor contact. How that would effect the back I can't say. But there was definitely a cause and effect between jiggeling the knob and the problem coming and going.

Hans.

[vgogolak]

Dear Mort,

First time is difficult with anything, but does have the advantage of bringing out 'lessons learned'

One of the things that I noticed with the Contax even back to the Kodak back days (afterward P25, now have P45 and await  P45+) was that you need clean electrical contacts. Any system that relies on plunge vs slide contact is prone to a little dirt and oil buildup  esp on an old back. I bought a second hand back and had some issues till I just wiped all contacts with alcohol (also the camera battery) and that was a few years back. No issues since.

On the viewfinder, I don't agree it is like an SLR at all, the impression is caused by large field. However, a little $75 magic from Bill Maxwell and you will be using sunglasses :-) (It gives 2 stop brighter. I actually have many hasselblad lenses that I focus in stop down mode.)

on ergonomics, puts and takes; every big easy knob is also one that pulls off or gets hit off etc. When you take a Contax 645 and a $30,000 back to the top of a Corsican Mt you don't want stuff hanging out! and I have ham hands.

Contax fans are Rabid but I can tell you, I save my four letter words for many other less reliable items.

BTW, in mounting the P45 back, be VERY careful; it is extremely accurate but fussy. If you don't get a solid 'click in' feel or sound, it isnt right (and focus will be EVER so slightly off.

Experience with equipment is important, and I would not be the first to say that anything takes study to learn the peculiatities. What you have in this combination is an unbelievable breadth of top glass, and a system virtually error free, once you both settle in from the maiden cruise.

regards
Victor

[Mort54]

One of the things that I noticed with the Contax even back to the Kodak back days (afterward P25, now have P45 and await P45+) was that you need clean electrical contacts. Any system that relies on plunge vs slide contact is prone to a little dirt and oil buildup esp on an old back.

BTW, in mounting the P45 back, be VERY careful; it is extremely accurate but fussy. If you don't get a solid 'click in' feel or sound, it isnt right (and focus will be EVER so slightly off.

Experience with equipment is important, and I would not be the first to say that anything takes study to learn the peculiatities. What you have in this combination is an unbelievable breadth of top glass, and a system virtually error free, once you both settle in from the maiden cruise.

Hello Victor. Quite true. There's always some initial discomfort with anything new, and I'm sure this factored into my reaction to the Contax. One thing I can't complain about, however, is sharpness. Autofocus was dead on. Most of my shots were at 1/60th second, and I was worried that I would see blurring due to camera shake due to the strong winds, but the images I got were very sharp. If the wind hadn't been blowing, maybe they would have been even sharper  

I did pull the back off and wipe the contacts when I first started seeing the file corruptions, to no avail, but I just wiped them with my fingers. Certainly wiping them down with alcohol might have had a better effect.

[Harris Edelman]

The batteries had supposedly been fully charged the day before by the dealer. The battery indicator showed full. Besides, I don't think low batteries would explain why jiggeling one of the knobs would make the problem come and go. But I can't say for sure. My guess is that it was simply an old body that had seen a lot of wear and tear, and maybe the contacts associated with the exposure mode knob had worn and were making poor contact. How that would effect the back I can't say. But there was definitely a cause and effect between jiggeling the knob and the problem coming and going.

Hans.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111977\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hans,

The detents on the control dials of a Contax 645 in nominal working order are all quite firm and positive.

In the case of the one you had for testing, it's likely that rapidly-changing input from one or more loose controls swamped the camera's CPU with interrupts, causing the "ready" signal on the data bus to flap at a correspondingly high rate.

This fits with your description of generalized trouble--bad metering, hangups that required cold resets, back issues.

Dirty contacts would tend to localize a problem to one subassembly.


-H.

P.S. As William notes, you can set aperture to fractional stops, albeit with no detents--indeed, you can set 1/3 stops, if you've got a fine touch and nerves of steel.

[vgogolak]

...I was worried that I would see blurring due to camera shake due to the strong winds, but the images I got were very sharp. If the wind hadn't been blowing, maybe they would have been even sharper 

... I just wiped them with my fingers. ...[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111981\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

AHh that is something else I noticed with coming from Leica R to Contax and now also Leica R and M. Thje contax is heavy but very stable. With 2sec delay I even use with birds to hide mirror noise.
otherwise, very sharp shots. and a small footprint (less conspicuous than a Kodak SLR/c that I had for a short time.)

Fingers? no, lots of oil. Need that alcohol (if you do not apply to contacts, then you will wind up drinking it!  :-)

regards
Victor

[larryg]

I use the Canon 1ds camera and the Contax 645 with Phase One P25

I like the manual feel (primarily a landscape shooter)  The mirror up button is aggravating, especially with the L-Bracket installed.   Hard to get to it to push in and also tough when it is cold (mainly because I am probably wearing the Lowepro gloves or such).

Otherwise I have had no problems and prefer the working of the Contax over the Canon.   Very top quality images (and I haven't upgraded to the P45 yet)


The only question I have now (maybe two)  Is:  What is the longterm prognosis for the Contax 645 and also the Phase One backs for Contax (especially now that many manufacturers are offering closed systems)