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dhansak79

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« on: March 27, 2007, 05:00:49 pm »

I am planning a trip to the US in the summer and have tonight planned out what I think are my locations and how I'm going to do it.

Would appreciate any advice and suggestions as to if I'm doing the right thing or not.  I'm talking about the order that I'm visiting the places and if I'm missing anything along the way.

My plan is to fly to Grand Junction in Colorado (from Edinburgh via Atlanta and Denver) and then taking the following route:
1. Arches National Park (2 Night Stay)
2. Monument Valley (1 Night Stay)
3. Bryce Canyon (1 Night Stay)
4. Zion National Park (1 Night Stay)
5. Las Vegas (5 Night Stay)

One thing that I'm not prepared to do it cut my Vegas stay short, I am prepared to extend my trip though to fit something else in.

Whilst in Vegas I would plan to go to Red Rock Canyon and the Valley of Fire.

Can't wait!

Look forward to your comments and suggestions.  Recommendations of accomodation and restaurants greatly received.  We will be looking to stay in the best accomodation possible, not worried about price (I have to do this to keep Suzanne happy as she will be putting up with hours of photography).

Daniel

« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 05:02:33 pm by dhansak79 »
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howiesmith

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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2007, 05:27:06 pm »

Br careful with distance and time.  Mapquest says it is nearly 129 miles from Grand Junction to Moab and 180 miles from Moab to Kayenta.  Times given are about 1 hour 45 minutes and about 3 hours, respectively.  That is almost 60 mph.  Hard to do if you stop for anything (gas, bathroom, food, etc,) or even slow down to look around.  And you may want to.  Mapquest has over 11 hours driving from Grand Junction to LV via Kayenta or 1 long day doing nothing but driving.

It will be very hot in July-August, so take that into consideration.  Lots of water and sun protection.  A rental car should have little trouble with the heat, even with A/C on full blast all the time.

You will be driving through some very interesting, scenic and photogrnic country.  I would allow more time before LV.  (Personally, I would skip LV all together, but you seem sure you want to stay a week.  So, enjoy.)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 05:34:00 pm by howiesmith »
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dhansak79

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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2007, 05:47:21 pm »

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Personally, I would skip LV all together, but you seem sure you want to stay a week. 
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I go to Vegas for a week once a year.  Appreciate it's not for everyone but Suzanne and I always enjoy ourselves when we're there.

Thanks for the tips.  I was planning to drive from each place in the order stated and thought that the length of driving each day looked manageable.  Might throw in an extra night at one of the stops (Zion perhaps) to make it a little less tiring - it's supposed to be a holiday after all!
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Lisa Nikodym

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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2007, 06:41:56 pm »

I'd probably replace Monument Valley (or maybe Arches) with the north rim of the Grand Canyon.  That rim is not far from Zion, much less out of the way for you than Monument Valley.  There's nothing else in the world like the Grand Canyon - it's stunning.  Maybe not *quite* so photogenic as Monument Valley, but more impressive just to see.

Unfortunately, summer is not the best time for that part of the world, given the intense heat.  If you've been to Las Vegas in the summer before, then you know what you're getting into, but if you haven't, be prepared!

And I'll echo the previous comments about your itinerary being an awful lot of driving and not a great deal else.  I'd consider reducing the number of stops, and focussing more on a smaller number of places (I'd vote for flying both into and out of L.V., and focussing only on Bryce, Zion, and the north rim of the Grand Canyon, all of which are in one area).

Lisa
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Jo Irps

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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2007, 06:48:11 pm »

Daniel, you should at least plan for two nights each at Monument Valley, Brice Canyon and Zion. If you just want to drive and see the places by driving through the parks and not photographing, then 1 night stays are ok.

While staying in Moab you have to visit Arches and Island in the sky, one and a half days are plenty.

On the way to Monument Valley you should stop at Needles Overlook, Canyonlands and Bluff. Maybe  you can do that in one day.

While in Monument Valley area you probabely will stay at Mexican Hat or Kayenta. To the Monument Valley entrance it's either way a 28 miles drive. Goldings opposite the drive to the entrance is a other possebility to stay, but very pricy. Sunrise and sunset is a must to see. Within the park there are so many spots, you would need more than one day. Near MV is the Valley af Gods, itself a miniature MV, and there is the Goosnecks Viewpoint nearby.

From MV to Brice it's a very long drive with beautifull scenery on the road you want to stop at. One day should cover that. Than you need one day at Brice.

From Brice to Zion you will drive on Americas most scenic road, take your time. Make a detour to Cedar Breaks. Again, one day will cover that.

For Zion Canyon you need one full day. Also drive up Kolob Terrace Road at late afternoon, you can do that before you drive to LV at night.

The rest is up to you. I have done it 3 times now and have not seen all of it yet. Capital Reef would be another stop, but that would be a big detour for you.

Enjoy your trip.
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dobson

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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2007, 11:05:32 pm »

Arches is full of photographic oppurtunites but it is a very small park in itself. You can tour all of the roadside attractions in a few hours. The hikes tend to be short as well. My suggestion is that, while there, you spend some time at areas other than Arches too.

Some places I've visited that I would recommend are Castle Valley and the Fisher Towers. The Fishers are a must visit and feature a short hike through giant, unusually shaped towers. In fact, the 900ft Titan is the largest sandstone tower in the country. Castle Valley, though more of a climber's destination, can yield some great photos of the impressive towers and isolated desert landscape.

[attachment=2192:attachment]
:The Cobra and distant Echo Tower in the Fishers:

You may also wish to look into Canyonlands NP, too. I have not been there, but it looks loke a good place.
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Peter McLennan

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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2007, 12:46:11 am »

I agree with Lisa on the North Rim.  MUCH better than the South Rim and 10% of the South Rim visitors.

Also, while in Moab, Dead Horse Point State Park ( a scenic hour N of Moab) is one of North America's grandest vistas.  Certainly as good as the Grand Canyon, better, IMHO.  

Leave Moab an hour and a half to two hours before sunset and prepare to be astounded.
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dhansak79

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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2007, 02:21:13 pm »

Having had another think about it I may cut it down to the following to give me more time in each place.

1. Fly to Denver and stay there for the night
2. Drive through the Rocky Mountains to Moab and stay there for 2 nights
3. Drive down to the Monument Valley area and stay there for 2 nights
4. Drive over to Zion and stay there for 2 nights
5. Drive to Vegas for the remainder of the trip

I am going to be back in Vegas in March 2008 so can pick up the places that I miss this time next time.  I want to do each place justice and feel that only being there for one night will give me one crack at a sunrise and sunset and this may not be enough.

What do people think about this?  Have I chosen the best 3 spots for my first trip?
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dhansak79

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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2007, 05:20:54 pm »

I have now come up with the following options:

Options 1 and 2 are probably the best in my opinion with 1 just pipping it for the places we’ll get to see.  Option 2 is very tempting though as we’ll have less days travelling and will be able to give the two places plenty of time to get the best out of them.

What do you think?


Option 1
1 night Denver, 2 nights Arches, 2 nights Monument, 2 nights Zion, 5 nights Vegas

Fly to Denver
Day 1 – stay night in Denver
Day 2 – drive 354 miles (5 hours 30 mins) to Moab (Arches National Park)
Day 3 – Moab (Arches National Park)
Day 4 – drive 146 miles (2 hours 30 mins) to Monument Valley
Day 5 – Monument Valley
Day 6 – drive 268 miles (5 hours) to Zion National Park
Day 7 – Zion National Park
Day 8 – drive 161 miles (3 hours) to Las Vegas
Day 9-12 – Las Vegas

Total driving miles 929 (16 hours)

Option 2
1 night Denver, 3 nights Arches, 3 nights Zion, 5 nights Vegas

Fly to Denver
Day 1 – stay night in Denver
Day 2 – drive 354 miles (5 hours 30 mins) to Arches National Park, Moab
Day 3 – Moab
Day 4 – Moab
Day 5 – drive 325 miles (5 hours 15 mins) to Zion National Park
Day 6 – Zion
Day 7 – Zion
Day 8 – drive 161 miles (3 hours) to Las Vegas
Day 9-12 – Las Vegas

Total driving miles 840 (13 hours 45 mins)

Option 3
1 night Denver, 2 nights Arches, 1 night Bryce, 3 nights Zion, 5 nights Vegas

Fly to Denver
Day 1 – stay night in Denver
Day 2 – drive 354 miles (5 hours 30 mins) to Arches National Park, Moab
Day 3 – Moab
Day 4 – drive 277 miles (4 hours 40 mins) to Bryce Canyon National Park
Day 5 – drive 116 miles (2 hours 40 mins) to Zion National Park
Day 6 – Zion
Day 7 - Zion
Day 8 – drive 161 miles (3 hours) to Las Vegas
Day 9-12 – Las Vegas

Total driving miles 908 (15 hours)
Option 4
1 night Las Vegas, 3 nights Zion, 1 night Bryce, 2 nights GC, 5 nights Vegas

Fly to Las Vegas
Day 1 – stay night in Las Vegas
Day 2 – drive 161 miles (3 hours) to Zion National Park
Day 3 – Zion
Day 4 – Zion
Day 5 – drive 116 miles (2 hours 40 mins) to Bryce Canyon National Park
Day 6 – drive 293 miles to West Rim Drive, Grand Canyon
Day 7 – Grand Canyon
Day 8 – drive 280 miles (4 hours 30 mins) to Las Vegas
Day 9-12 – Las Vegas

Total driving miles 850 (10 hours)

Option 5
1 night Vegas, 3 nights Zion, 2 nights Monument, 2 Nights Arches, 4 nights Vegas

Fly to Las Vegas
Day 1 – stay night in Las Vegas
Day 2 – drive 161 miles (3 hours) to Zion National Park
Day 3 – Zion
Day 4 – Zion
Day 5 – drive 268 miles (5 hours) to Monument Valley
Day 6 – Monument Valley
Day 7 – drive 146 miles (2 hours 30 mins) to Arches National Park (Moab)
Day 8 – Moab
Day 9 – drive 457 miles (6 hours 39 mins) to Las Vegas
Day 10-12 – Las Vegas

Total driving miles 1032 (17 hours)
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Lisa Nikodym

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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2007, 06:26:12 pm »

OK, option 3 is pretty much what I suggested, except that your distances are for driving all the way to the south rim of the Grand Canyon instead of the north rim; the latter is considerably closer to Zion & Las Vegas, so the driving would be considerably less.  The north rim is less crowded and touristy, too.

I've been to all the places you're considering, and I would say option 3 is the best (at least in my humble opinion).

Lisa
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dhansak79

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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2007, 06:28:48 pm »

I don't have the Grand Canyon in Option 3.  Can you explain what you mean as I'm a little confused.  Thank you very much so far for helping me out.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 06:29:38 pm by dhansak79 »
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mikebinok

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« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2007, 07:18:04 pm »

While I stayed at Monument Valley, I stayed at Gouldings (spell?) and I recommend the place, but it higher than the hotels in Mexican Hat and Kayenta.  Not outrageous, though.  They have an American Automobile Association discount, if you are a member of the British equivalent club (ROyal Motor Club?) they might recognize your card, check with the clubs or hotel to be sure.

There are scads of good places to go in the West, I have only been to a few so I won't try to tell you which one except to encourage you in your efforts to cut down the number of places so you have more time per park and less time driving.  If you come back to Vegas regularly, that means you can catch different parks another time, which is an even stronger incentive to minimize driving time.

One exception to what I just said about not telling you which one is that if you haven't been to the Grand Canyon before, I encourage you to visit it.  Amazing place.  I haven't (yet) been to the North Rim--Do make sure you are aware that facilities there aren't nearly as developed as they are in most US National Parks, and are entirely closed except in warmest months of the year.

For what it's worth, I'm flying to Las Vegas next week, and will spend some time photographing when my business in Vegas is done.  I'm spending two days in Valley of Fire State Park, and three days on the South Rim of the Grand Canyon.  Unfortunately, that's all the time I'll have this trip.
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howiesmith

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« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2007, 07:45:52 pm »

To cut down on driving time, take option 4.  You are averaging 85 mph.

If you sre crossing Hoover Dam between the south rim of GC and LV, it has been known to take up to an hour to get through security (while covering a couple miles).

Written feedback from the highway patrol on your driving style may take about half an hour per lesson.
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Peter McLennan

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« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2007, 10:39:41 pm »

I'd avoid Monument Valley on this trip and spend more time between Moab and Zion.  Natural Bridges, Capitol Reef National Park, the red canyon lands just west of Hite, the area around Hanksville, crossing the Escalante plateau, all are more tempting to me than MV.  

If you do drive Moab-MV, be sure to take the Moki Dugway, just NW of Mexican Hat.  It's a driving experience that defies description.
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nma

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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2007, 09:45:16 am »

Quote
I am planning a trip to the US in the summer and have tonight planned out what I think are my locations and how I'm going to do it.

Would appreciate any advice and suggestions as to if I'm doing the right thing or not.  I'm talking about the order that I'm visiting the places and if I'm missing anything along the way.

My plan is to fly to Grand Junction in Colorado (from Edinburgh via Atlanta and Denver) and then taking the following route:
1. Arches National Park (2 Night Stay)
2. Monument Valley (1 Night Stay)
3. Bryce Canyon (1 Night Stay)
4. Zion National Park (1 Night Stay)
5. Las Vegas (5 Night Stay)

One thing that I'm not prepared to do it cut my Vegas stay short, I am prepared to extend my trip though to fit something else in.

Whilst in Vegas I would plan to go to Red Rock Canyon and the Valley of Fire.

Can't wait!

Look forward to your comments and suggestions.  Recommendations of accomodation and restaurants greatly received.  We will be looking to stay in the best accomodation possible, not worried about price (I have to do this to keep Suzanne happy as she will be putting up with hours of photography).

Daniel


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=109027\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Daniel,

Your plans are much too ambitious and do not give sufficent weight to the heat of summer. I did summer trips to all the places you mentioned in the various options  outlined.  First, it is beastly hot in LV and all the desert places mentioned. Outdoor activities during midday are essentially impossible. Even walking from hotel to hotel on the LV strip will be a challenge. Touching the door handle on your car will be painfull.  The driving times outlined are totally unrealistic. Possible on paper, perhaps, but not at all sensible.

Here is a more modest proposition: It is a loop, beginning and ending in LV.  From LV drive to Springdale/ZNP (3-4 hours).  Stay one day because it will very hot in the valley, probably too hot to do much walking. Drive to Bryce Canyon (~ 3 hours). Bryce is at ~ 8,000 ft and much cooler. Stay longer here. Do a day trip down to Escalante via Rt. 12. Route 12 is argualbly the most scenic highway in the USA.  If you start real early in the morning you can visit some of the sights off the road, like Kodachrome Basin. Then, drive to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon and stay awhile (reasonable temps here). It is magic.
Return to LV.

The other desert places are wonderful, but  very difficult to enjoy in midsummer.  Moab is unbelieveably hot.  

Hope this helps.
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Lisa Nikodym

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« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2007, 11:26:23 am »

Quote
I don't have the Grand Canyon in Option 3.  Can you explain what you mean as I'm a little confused.  Thank you very much so far for helping me out.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=109230\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sorry, the one I meant was option 4.

It looks like nma above has pretty much the same idea (though I haven't been to Escalante yet, so I can't judge that one).  I heartily second nma's warnings about the heat, too (unless you're one of the northern Europeans who thrive in beastly hot weather,  though I thought most of them were German   ).

Lisa

P.S.  As someone mentioned above, the north rim is much less developed than the south rim, but there's still a large hotel and restaurant complex (just not six of them) and a number of scenic roads to viewpoints, so all you'll really miss from the south rim is the crowds.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 11:33:40 am by nniko »
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howiesmith

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« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2007, 12:02:47 pm »

Quote
P.S.  As someone mentioned above, the north rim is much less developed than the south rim, but there's still a large hotel and restaurant complex (just not six of them) and a number of scenic roads to viewpoints, so all you'll really miss from the south rim is the crowds.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=109390\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

True.  But even though there are fewer visitors, there are fewer facilities to take care of them.  The single hotel is usually full.  The dining room gets filled and can be difficult to get into.
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miketelemark

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« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2007, 04:43:54 pm »

Daniel,

2 more thoughts.  If you fly to Denver, don't stay in Denver.  Drive up to Frisco and spend the night up there and then photograph around Vail Pass in the morning on your way to Moab.  You could also check out the sunrise options in Colorado National Monument if you stay in Grand Junction.  Remember that if you are in Monument Valley, you will be very close to Antelope Canyon and some very spectacular areas of Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument.

-Mike Anderson
 Golden, CO
 www.lightscapephoto.com
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cmburns

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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2007, 01:25:26 am »

I did a bunch of this only in reverse order. Are you purely landscape or is wildlife a possibility as well? If so then go west out of Denver and make a side trip to either Mount Evans or Rocky Mountain National park. You stand a decent chance of seeing moose in Rocky Mountain NP, mountain goats in Mount Evans. Mount Evans is less out of the way. Then head on towards Grand Junction. It's not too out of your way at all to drive through Colorado National Monument, though when i went through in the middle of the day it seemed pretty meh to me.
Go to Moab. At Moab go see the Fischer towers at sunset one day. Go to Dead Horse Pt, spend a day or two seeing Arches.
Drive south down to Kayenta. You'll drive through Mexican Hat, another photo op. It's also not much of a detour to see the Goosenecks of the San Juan.
I skipped Monument Valley. You pretty much have to have a guide to get to all the really well know spectacular locations.
Drive over to Page, AZ. Get up early and shoot Horseshoe Bend. Then drive out to the place to enter the drawing for "The Wave." It's about 20 miles west of Page, I can't remember if it's in Utah or not, but double check because Arizona doesn't do daylight savings time and you can get messed up on your times when you cross from one state to the next. They draw 10 names a day that let you hike out the following day to Coyote Buttes "The wave." If you win the lottery, write off a day in Vegas. If not, you just lost a little time. Then go back to Page and to lower Antelope Canyon. Mid day go to upper Antelope to get the sunbeams coming through. Don't go with one of the tours in town, just go across the road from lower Antelope pay your money and have them take you out. Then you can spend all the time you want and come back when you want. Tripod a must, angle finder nice so you don't have to bend so low, you'll be shooting up a lot, 20 second exposures not uncommon.

I think you can get out of Page in time to get over to the north rim of the grand canyon by sunset. Book a room for this NOW. If you won "The Wave" lottery no problem you can still drive back to it from the North Rim the next morning. There is no hotels close to the north rim other than the one right at the north rim, so if you don't get that one you'll have a long drive out.

Ok so new day, North rim at sunrise, you'll either be heading to "The Wave" and then to Bryce Canyon or straight to Bryce. It's not too far a detour out of Kanab to the Coral Pink sand dunes. Not the best in mid-day but still worth seeing with your eyes. I stayed in Panguitch once, and camped in Bryce once. Panguitch isn't too far away. Hit Bryce at Sunset and Sunrise the next day. Maybe spend two days here. Do a hike down into it,(will be brutal hot though).
After Bryce drive over to Zion. There's some good stuff outside the actual canyon, on the road to it from the east like you'll be going. You will have to shoot late in the day, and early there, not just because of the lighting but because it's just roasting hot there in the summer. Also you no longer can just drive into the actual Canyon, you have to take a shuttle bus. You can also bicycle, there's probably bicycle rental in Springdale, don't know for sure, we had our own bikes. We could park close to the entrance and bicycle in, it's a fairly easy ride. Book ahead in Springdale, the hotels there sell out early. So do the camp sites.
The big thing I want to do in Zion is hike deep up the stream to the racetrack. Unfortunately it was early June when I was there and the snowmelt was causing the stream to flood huge. BTW it was super hot even in June. In July maybe the stream will be down low enough that the only worry will be a flash flood. If you're not hiking to the race track i'd say spend maybe 2 days there just to get 2 sunsets then head out.
Now you can go to Vegas or take everyones advice and skip it. Vegas in the summer is just hell, HELL I TELL YA. It will be 95 degrees at night there, forget about movement in the daytime.

So drive out of Vegas, and check out the hoover dam, they're building that stupid bridge away from it now, so drive across it while you can. Then head on over to the south rim of the Grand Canyon. Again book ahead. Stay at a couple of the better lodges if you can, otherwise stay at a hotel south a few miles out of the park. The lesser lodges have horrible ratings on tripadvisor.com. You can see it all in a day, take photos maybe one sunset, a sunrise, and another sunset then head east, not many hotels out this way though. If it was me i'd drive back to Denver through southwest, Colorado. Then you could go to Mesa Verde NP in the very southwest corner. You might also consider seeing the Grand Canyon south rim, then driving south back to the interstate and heading east. You can then see the Painted Desert/Petrified Forest, and then turn North and see Canyon De Chelly, on your way back towards Colorado. Zig and zag your way up through Colorado, maybe see Pikes Peak.

I've probably included too much stuff. If it was up to me i'd skip Vegas, and try to add in Canyon De Chelly and Mesa Verde. I did this trip plus i'd already been to Yosemite and Death Valley when I got to Vegas. We drove on through, and I like Vegas. It was just really out of place compared to all the natural wonders. Vegas is the height of American culture, so plastic, so fake, and disposable. Something gets old, you tear it down and build a new one. The scenic locations around Vegas don't hold a candle to the others on your trip.
Have another day? you could take a boat tour on Lake Powell out of Page to Rainbow Arch. Or just do nothing. You're going to be go go go driving all day, taking pictures until late, eating dinner, then sleep, up early, more pictures, drive all day. You're going to be worn out. Build in a vacation from the vacation if you can.

You should seriously consider buying these
http://www.martres.com/m_books.html
He has maps, locations, times of day, times of year etc. all layed out for you. You just need to pick the ones you want and go from there.

A few final reminders. It's going to be SUPER HOT. Hiking will be pretty much not worth it during the day. 2. The distances aren't just 300 miles, it's 300 miles of boredom. You'll see some great stuff, then see nothing but dead grass for hundreds of miles. I hope there's at least 2 of you that can drive. 3. Weather. You'll get some afternoon thunderstorms, and you only have one day at a spot so you might not get anything. When I went to the wave it had stormed over at Bryce, and the flash flooded down to the wave. I wound up with a 10 mile hike instead of 4 or 5 because the road was washed out. This isn't the norm, but storms can throw you off schedule in a variety of ways.
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