Switching to Contax for my P25...

[James Russell]

jemas,
who is ranier?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106182\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's funny


JR

[thsinar]

no, that was Rainier!

another one whom with to be confused now!

Used to live Monaco
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[vgogolak]

Yes, maybe was Reiner

funny guy!

[pprdigital]

I like my Contax in every way except the WLF. The problem is it doesn't work for portrait mode. I wish HB V had a rotational digital back. Don't know why it's not possible.

Now HY6 seems an ideal choice. Unoftunately, it shows up too late. After investigating so much on Hasselblad V and Contax 645, I'm reluctant to spend money on a new system.

I've written letters to Hasselblad, asking for a digital back that can be rotate on V and also can take Xpan's lenses, though knowing it's not possible.
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As far as I know, all the digital backs can be rotated on a Hasselblad V (can't confirm Phase, but will assume they do). Hasselblad, Leaf and Sinar - yes. Unless you mean without taking the back off the body, then no back does that. I believe the finders get in the way.

At any rate, the Hy6 will not allow for a non-release rotation either.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital

[James Russell]

[span style=\'font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\']At any rate, the Hy6 will not allow for a non-release rotation either.[/span]

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106311\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Steve,


"non-release rotation".


Nice term.

JR

[Dustbak]

Steve,
"non-release rotation".
Nice term.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106354\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yep. This I find very disappointing. The rotating back has been brought like it was something revolutionary while in fact it actually is a copy of a very old system.

From the way it has been 'hyped' I kind of expected a 'non-release rotation'

[rethmeier]

My question and answer from Sinar:

"Rotating eMotion back on Hy6"

"Will you be able to rotate the e-75 when
attached to the Hy6?
Or do you have to remove,rotate and re-attach ?"


Dear Mr. Rethmeier

Thank you very much for your inquiry and for your interest in SINAR products.

Currently, the Sinar Hy6 adapters to any applicable digital camera back is made to be removed and re-attached in order to rotate the back from landscape to portrait and vice-versa. However, studies in a revolving adapter are being made.

Best regards
Andrea

[william]

I don't understand what's so difficult about making an actual rotating back.  The Sinar eMotion mounted to a Rollei 6008 rotates, from what I've been told.  So they obviously understand the concept.  Shouldn't it just require two sets of electronic contacts between the back and camera, one in the vertical and one in the horizontal position?

My question and answer from Sinar:

"Rotating eMotion back on Hy6"

"Will you be able to rotate the e-75 when
attached to the Hy6?
Or do you have to remove,rotate and re-attach ?"
Dear Mr. Rethmeier

Thank you very much for your inquiry and for your interest in SINAR products.

Currently, the Sinar Hy6 adapters to any applicable digital camera back is made to be removed and re-attached in order to rotate the back from landscape to portrait and vice-versa. However, studies in a revolving adapter are being made.

Best regards
Andrea
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[Morgan_Moore]

I don't understand what's so difficult about making an actual rotating back. 

The Sinar eMotion mounted to a Rollei 6008 rotates
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106400\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I dont know if the 6008 rotates I think you should check this

In terms of why is it hard to do that is simple engineering or phisics surely

Basically there is not enough space to make the device and still get infinity focus

Everything is competing against everything else

THe shorter the camera the less retrofocal the lenses (and therefore better) and the easier it is to construct wides

Extra bits will imply a longer camera and difficulties at the lens end

Two ideas..

1) a rotational back could be made that would not get infinity with wides but the big makret for upright is all day fashion shoots

2) the digiback could have a protective front in the same way as 645 rollfilm backs have a protective slide to stop fogging (there must be room for one of those - think about it)

The HY6 is both blessed and cursed by being probably on basically the same chasis and lens positionings as the rollei

blessing..

lens compatability

development cost

curses

no rotation

difficult to make a wide that clears a 66 mirror

A thirrd idea a rotating prism 90 degrees

this would give both a regular view and a look in the top view for uprights

SMM

[David WM]

Would this ba a NRRDB or a NRRB?  

I think considering that Mamiya managed to make a perectly reliable non-release rotating body in the RZ years ago, surely it isn't beyond today's technology. I think the manufacturers just aren't aware that it is really worthwhile. I also think it could be one of the distinctions between a MF system and a 35mm system which could help win a few sales from 35mm.

Steve,
"non-release rotation".
Nice term.

JR
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[Morgan_Moore]

Would this ba a NRRDB or a NRRB?  

I think considering that Mamiya managed to make a perectly reliable non-release rotating body in the RZ [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106405\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The RZ is 67 no ??

So the thing is much bigger sayt twice the size and therefore the tolerances four times less ??

And what is the widest lens ??

A three mm adition to thickness (that is two 1.5mm plates in effect) wont push the lens designers that much on a 67

To have the same effect on a 645 you would have to have a device that was maybe 1mm thick

I dont see it being a problem to do if one were designing from scratch but a huge problem given that the geometry of the HY6 was defined by the 6008 and its lenses

The distance from the mount face on the camera to the 'film/imaging' plane on my cameras mam and h1 is about 1mm

Try building a rotaing back that is 1mm thick and still rigid  - no chance

If you look a Kapture group's rotating devices you will see that they move the film plane back and compensate by lifting the ground glass to keep viewfinder focus

this loses infinity on wide lenses as they admit

Just take the back of any MF camera an look at the distance from the back of the camera to the film plane and try to imagine the thiness required

[James Russell]

The RZ is 67 no ??

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Regardless of the reasons, having to remove the back and put it back on to change the orientation is for me a big issue.

In studio, on a semi calm day, maybe not that big of a problem, but on location having to go verticle to horizontal continually, it's just not a safe way to change.

I could never do this job by having to remove the back every time I changed the orientation.

[a href=\"http://www.russellrutherford.com/recent_miami/]http://www.russellrutherford.com/recent_miami/[/url]

And digital capture has opened up a whole new level of client expectations of the style and volume of images they expect, even high end campaigns that we use to shoot 2 or 3 set ups a day now have gone to double, triple the set ups.

Now I've only seen drawings of the camera and maybe it has more functionality than I know, but I don't see a right angle grip or button, so even using the prism won't allow for easy verticle shooting without removing the back.

I somewhat don't understand this, as my Contax, Canons and Nikons all make this  very easily.  

Shooting fast on location is the market db's are trying to address, just like Canon is trying (actually has) moved into the medium format segment.  

What good is a 2fps camera if you have to stop and shield the back from the elements, take the back off, put the back on and then resume working?

JR

[David WM]

Yes I don't imagine its something you'd want to incorporate as an afterthought, but at the moment, having a separate body to DB I'd imagine its do-able in the MF concept, or will it be the 1DSmk4 that has an internally rotating chip?   Was it the Leaf Volare that had a lever to rotate the chip? More than 1 way to skin a cat. (apologies to felineists)

David

I dont see it being a problem to do if one were designing from scratch but a huge problem given that the geometry of the HY6 was defined by the 6008 and its lenses

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[Morgan_Moore]

having to remove the back and put it back on to change the orientation is for me a big issue.

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Agreed - but I dont think it will happen on the Hy6

Again being fair it is still a useful feature - lets face it the for one my H1 is horrid upright on a tripod and many jobs I know I will be 90% upright if it is people so it is a start to be able to take a punt at the begining of the day

Doesnt help with a look in the top viewer though

I agree that these companies do seem to have little idea about using cameras outside of lab conditions

My summary is that the HY6 is just a rehashed rollie and therefore bound to be full of compormises unless a 66 chip occurs and even beyond then

Blad have done a bold thing in a way by fixing on the smaller imaging size becuase it buys them space to pull off either a rotating back or wider lenses in the long term - not that I care because my back is locked out from future developments

no one has actually made a camera yet with the current chipsize range in mind


SMM

[RicAgu]

Now reading that you have to remove the DB to rotate it makes the Hy6 a no go for me.  I had such hopes for the Hy6.

I used the Hassy V series for a bit and the removing of the back was not happening for me.  I used it in studio on a calm day.  There is no way this would work for me on location.  I shoot mostly celebrity stuff and it just won't work for me.  The P25 is already slow in the capture rate, so removing the back to rotate is not something I look forward to.

I sold all my Contax and Pentax and got the H series and have been happy.  I have had to adjust some stuff but nothing major.  I still have my RZ stuff hoping for a solution to use my RZ with H1 mounted backs.

I use an H1/2 with a P25/45 now and I am happy with it.

instead of waiting for the next best thing, it is best to use what so many here have used and tested to their limits.  It simple to read here.  P45's in barely human conditions with sub zero weather, P30's in 100% humidity with sand whipping around, P25's in underwater housings shooting Great Whites, the list goes on.

Best of luck with all your choices.  The best thing is to go out and shoot.

[Henry Goh]

Now reading that you have to remove the DB to rotate it makes the Hy6 a no go for me.  I had such hopes for the Hy6.

I used the Hassy V series for a bit and the removing of the back was not happening for me.  I used it in studio on a calm day.  There is no way this would work for me on location.  I shoot mostly celebrity stuff and it just won't work for me.  The P25 is already slow in the capture rate, so removing the back to rotate is not something I look forward to.

I sold all my Contax and Pentax and got the H series and have been happy.  I have had to adjust some stuff but nothing major.  I still have my RZ stuff hoping for a solution to use my RZ with H1 mounted backs.

I use an H1/2 with a P25/45 now and I am happy with it.

instead of waiting for the next best thing, it is best to use what so many here have used and tested to their limits.  It simple to read here.  P45's in barely human conditions with sub zero weather, P30's in 100% humidity with sand whipping around, P25's in underwater housings shooting Great Whites, the list goes on.

Best of luck with all your choices.  The best thing is to go out and shoot.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106468\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have read so often about H1/H2 even H3 freezing or locking up and needing to be reset.  Your post seems to imply you have none of those issues.  Would that be correct?  Thanks for any info.

Henry

[Morgan_Moore]

I have read so often about H1/H2 even H3 freezing or locking up and needing to be reset.  Your post seems to imply you have none of those issues.  Would that be correct?  Thanks for any info.

Henry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106470\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My Blad locks about twice (two frames) a month

I have never upgraded the firmware - dont use a blad back - and half of my lenses have silver screws mening thier firmware is way out of date too

Seems like an acceptable rate to me

Low batteries (about once a month on the body) dont help

SMM

[RicAgu]

Hello Henry,

I guess I am one of the lucky ones.  I think Michael can chime in as well.

The only problems I have are when I run the battery to the limit and that is when it starts to act up on me.

Other than that I have done the needed software updates by driving over to Hassy in NJ.

I wish a real Hassy rep would jump on the forum and talk about the particluar software updates.  I went to NJ because I though I had to take everything with me to do lens updates an so forth and didn't want to risk shipping two bodies and five lenses.

All they did was update my bodies.  They said the lens/screw thing was a Hoax/Myth/Urban Legend.

For someone investing into Hassy I would look into local support or how far Hassy is located for service.  As with anything digital, I would try and find yourself a second body.  My first body has never gone down on me and my second body only has 1500 shots on it as testament to my second body with over 30,000 shots on it in 18 months.

The Phases have been bullet proof and I know a lot of people like the Contax, but I for one had a lot of problems in the film days with my Contax bodies.

Best of luck with your selection.

RA

I have read so often about H1/H2 even H3 freezing or locking up and needing to be reset.  Your post seems to imply you have none of those issues.  Would that be correct?  Thanks for any info.

Henry
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