Hasselblad H2/H3D future lens compatibility

[schotter]

I am new to this forum, so let me say 'Hi':
I am an advertising photographer and have used P45 and P30 and some Leaf Aptus backs on H1/H2 and (my own) Mamiya RZ. I am about to purchase either a P45 or a P30. Since my experience with the RZ and digital backs are nothing to write home about, I will go with a new camera system. No Hy6 yet, no Mamiya 645 with short flash sync times, so it will have to be Hasselblad.
Are all future Hasselblad 'H' lenses going to be 'H3D' dedicated (like the coming HCD 4/28)? I  find the H2 fixed focal length range quite insufficient for my use with a digital back (except maybe the 50mm and the huge zoom which received mixed reviews and is...huge). I would hope for a 60mm and 40mm lens to come out. But I am suspecting that if Hasselblad will produce these lenses, they will want to make them specifically for use with an H3D. Any info out there? Thanks!

[Morgan_Moore]

I am new to this forum, so let me say 'Hi':
I am an advertising photographer and have used P45 and P30 and some Leaf Aptus backs on H1/H2 and (my own) Mamiya RZ. I am about to purchase either a P45 or a P30. Since my experience with the RZ and digital backs are nothing to write home about, I will go with a new camera system. No Hy6 yet, no Mamiya 645 with short flash sync times, so it will have to be Hasselblad.
Are all future Hasselblad 'H' lenses going to be 'H3D' dedicated (like the coming HCD 4/28)? I  find the H2 fixed focal length range quite insufficient for my use with a digital back (except maybe the 50mm and the huge zoom which received mixed reviews and is...huge). I would hope for a 60mm and 40mm lens to come out. But I am suspecting that if Hasselblad will produce these lenses, they will want to make them specifically for use with an H3D. Any info out there? Thanks!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102153\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I dont think thier policy is clear..

I think they should continue the H2 as their film camera (and there fore foreign back camera)

I GUESS if they bring a shift lense out that will be H3 only because of the distortion and and vignetting issues they will be sorting with software

It should be easy for them to get the coverage with say a stright 60mm so the answer should be yes it should work on an H2

But will they bring out these lenses ? is there a market ? 35 50 80 seems pretty close to me esp when the zoom covers this range too

Do you know about the converter that allows use of V series lenses on the H body - i dont know how fiddly this is (wires ect??) that may get you some of the ranges you are interested in

This post is pure speculation based on a basic knowledge of lense design and economics - I would NOT bank on anything that does not exist - and I wouldnt bank on a long life for the production of the H2

If you dont own a back now it would seem that the H own brand may be a runner for you if you care about flash synch

SMM

[schotter]

Thanks for your thoughts, here is the thing: yes, short flash sync is a must for me. I need Phase since I shoot mostly on location and sometimes in relatively remote areas in the States, Europe, Asia and South America. The budgets rarely allow to bring my own operator/digital assistant so I have to go with something universally known to locals, so out are Leaf and (well I just had too look up the name myself...) Hasselblads 'Flexcolor'. Only my humble experience so far...
Wires, converters and such: I just shot with my RZ and P45 last weekend and decided it's not for me.
Your speculations pretty much go along with mine, and I would not go with a system if all there is are speculations and announcements.

cheers
k.

[pss]

Thanks for your thoughts, here is the thing: yes, short flash sync is a must for me. I need Phase since I shoot mostly on location and sometimes in relatively remote areas in the States, Europe, Asia and South America. The budgets rarely allow to bring my own operator/digital assistant so I have to go with something universally known to locals, so out are Leaf and (well I just had too look up the name myself...) Hasselblads 'Flexcolor'. Only my humble experience so far...
Wires, converters and such: I just shot with my RZ and P45 last weekend and decided it's not for me.
Your speculations pretty much go along with mine, and I would not go with a system if all there is are speculations and announcements.

cheers
k.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102176\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i shoot with a P30 on 645afdII and RZIID....the RZ for studio and short sync...no cables necessary with the IID body....not even phase seems to know that....
can't say anything about hass other then the zoom is unuseable to me (and i shoot RZ handheld) and i would not count on too many lenses coming out....the Hseries has been around for a couple of years now....limited range now, no future annoncements, no mentioning of support.....unless you like the hass full solution i would simply stay away....
if oyu are stuck on phase (like me) you only have a couple of options: contax (out if oyu need fast sync), Hy6 (it will be 6 months before it comes out and who knows when phase will be supported) and mamiya: 645 and RZ, both cheap, available all over the world, both work without problems, take the 645 for "P&S" and the RZ for 1/400.....
the RZ is also the only solution right now that lets you rotate the back ....again:there are no wires with the RZIID

[Mark_Tucker]

But I am suspecting that if Hasselblad will produce these lenses, they will want to make them specifically for use with an H3D. Any info out there? Thanks!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102153\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My advice to you, in the medium format area, with ANY brand, is to never "bet on the come". Never set up your kit, based on some rumored future lens. If it's made today, and it has a proven track record, then consider it. Just assume that whatever is available for purchase TODAY is all that'll ever be made, ever, and you'll come out ahead.

Stay away from The Bleeding Edge. Buy one notch back of the curve. With anything medium format digital.

[schotter]

thanks!
Considered that option, since I have the RZ and right now 'demoing' a friends' 645. RZIID no wires with Phase? I did not know that, sounds good. The other option I am entertaining right now is the good old Hasselblad 'V'. Tons of good lenses (and even cheap these days if you go used) AND short flash sync times. Not too bad, seems like there are two options now.

[schotter]

My advice to you, in the medium format area, with ANY brand, is to never "bet on the come". Never set up your kit, based on some rumored future lens. If it's made today, and it has a proven track record, then consider it. Just assume that whatever is available for purchase TODAY is all that'll ever be made, ever, and you'll come out ahead.

Stay away from The Bleeding Edge. Buy one notch back of the curve. With anything medium format digital.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102182\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

thanks, another point for aither Hasselblad 'V' or Mamiya 645, both approved.

[Morgan_Moore]

thanks, another point for aither Hasselblad 'V' or Mamiya 645, both approved.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102185\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My PERSONAL experience is that even though I dont feel emotional about the H camera I still think it is the current winner .

(In my nikon days I used an FM2 mostly - never bothered with electronics)

The mam 645 was shutter speed restriceted and the Vseries was like looking though a screen with gravel all over it compared to the H

THat bright view alone still makes the H the winner for me and the AF is good if your eyes are not up to hawk standard and you like shooting wide open

The mam 67 does souind interesting matched with a 645 which has 24 fish and a 47 shift lens and a leaf shutter 80 available too and upcoming 28

The one system no-one goes on about is the PRO TL where all those manual lenses work properly but I think that is Emotion only choice on the back front

SMM

[pss]

thanks!
Considered that option, since I have the RZ and right now 'demoing' a friends' 645. RZIID no wires with Phase? I did not know that, sounds good. The other option I am entertaining right now is the good old Hasselblad 'V'. Tons of good lenses (and even cheap these days if you go used) AND short flash sync times. Not too bad, seems like there are two options now.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102184\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

as i said..no wires with the RZIID....definitely wires with the hass V sytem...
the best thing about the RZ solution is the option to go with 645 as a back-up or easy handheld shooting...

[paul_jones]

My PERSONAL experience is that even though I dont feel emotional about the H camera I still think it is the current winner .

(In my nikon days I used an FM2 mostly - never bothered with electronics)

The mam 645 was shutter speed restriceted and the Vseries was like looking though a screen with gravel all over it compared to the H

THat bright view alone still makes the H the winner for me and the AF is good if your eyes are not up to hawk standard and you like shooting wide open

The mam 67 does souind interesting matched with a 645 which has 24 fish and a 47 shift lens and a leaf shutter 80 available too and upcoming 28

The one system no-one goes on about is the PRO TL where all those manual lenses work properly but I think that is Emotion only choice on the back front

SMM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102187\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

being influenced by paul schefz, i have borrowed a mamiya afd to play with.

i own a h1 kit, but ive been waiting 10 weeks for a lens repair on my zoom, and told yesterday it still will be a week away. this is my 3rd repair with my system, and the zoom has only 800 shots on it.
i was pissed off, so ive been researching other options.

the ablity of of being able to use the rz as well as the afd is appealing. but after playing with and afd for a day, i just dont think i could live with it. everything about the h1 is more refined, faster, and brighter. sure the h1 is unreliable (in my experience), but that aside, its a lot nicer to use than the mamiya afd.

i used to love the mamiya 645 pro. its a shame the afd wasnt in the same mold- why cant mamiya shift backwards a little, redesign the 645 afd, and add a removable finder(including the original mirror version- for an extra bright finder), add support for the old leaf shutter lenses (they wouldnt even have to be af), make the buttons more positive, and add a battery grip option for vertical shooting. it would be a killer camera, fast lenses, finder options, leaf shutter options as well as high shutter speeds. they have the largest manul lens colection of any med format camera out there.
sorry, i got a bit carried away. i find a lot of the cameras un-designed, i wonder what the manufactures where thinking when they where sitting in their boardrooms.

paul

[schotter]

thanks for all the input, definitively makes for an interesting read. I can see a bit of my own experience in almost any of the posts...rented mostly H1 and H2 and love the point and shootability and brightness, the idea of RZ2D and 645 is appealing, even though I would have to replace my RZ with an RZ2D and buy 2(!) new camera bodies...Hasselblad 'V', well, has one cable but not two (like my Mamiya RZ 'classic') BUT short sync times...I guess it comes down to 'what downside can I live with?'
I will have to, since going back to waiting for polaroids is a definitive 'no'.
cheers
k.

[Khun_K]

I am new to this forum, so let me say 'Hi':
I am an advertising photographer and have used P45 and P30 and some Leaf Aptus backs on H1/H2 and (my own) Mamiya RZ. I am about to purchase either a P45 or a P30. Since my experience with the RZ and digital backs are nothing to write home about, I will go with a new camera system. No Hy6 yet, no Mamiya 645 with short flash sync times, so it will have to be Hasselblad.
Are all future Hasselblad 'H' lenses going to be 'H3D' dedicated (like the coming HCD 4/28)? I  find the H2 fixed focal length range quite insufficient for my use with a digital back (except maybe the 50mm and the huge zoom which received mixed reviews and is...huge). I would hope for a 60mm and 40mm lens to come out. But I am suspecting that if Hasselblad will produce these lenses, they will want to make them specifically for use with an H3D. Any info out there? Thanks!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102153\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The HCD 28/4 is designed to use on H3D or later, so as may be some coming lenses that require special processing at hardware level, accoridng to my dealer. However, it is possible to upgrade the H2D to H3D by changing the internal circuit board, at a cost of course, then the H2Dn (with new circuit) can use newer and later lenses. I will not be surprise if eventually Hasselblad can manage to produce a shift lenses, it would most likely be H3D or later only.
The H3D and 28/4 combination appeals to me that it make the close focus much faster and accurate for certain shooting that otherwise difficult to be done by camera like Alpa, which is also fantastic for wide angle capture, but for precise close focus in limited time, the autofocus and be able to reveiw close to 100% of capture makes the H3D+28/4 more attractive.

[schotter]

'...camera like Alpa, which is also fantastic for wide angle capture, but for precise close focus in limited time, ...'

On my search for a digital equivalent for my beloved Mamiya 7 (the only camera I feel emotionally attached to) I ran into an Alpa. But it's useless for me for the same reasons you mention. What was I thinking? Compact digital handheld medium format, haha..The closest it gets to an easy to handle point and shoot camera (with bright viewfinder, autofocus, leaf shutter...) is the H2 but, as I said, the current lens range does not do it for me.
Assuming the future 'H2Dn' can use the H3 lenses AND Phase is again speculation.

Back to Mamiya 645Pro and AFD (since I have a friends' AFD here to play with).
Sorry for being quite uninformed, I never really looked at that system before. Do the Pro leaf shutter lenses work on the AFD (as regular MF lens)? And is a Leaf shutter 28mm lens a rumour or fact? I know that there is a 55 out here and just read about the 70 leaf shutter lens. Are they good? If so, I find that combination (645/P45/55mm/70mm and RZ) increasingly appealing.

cheers
k.

[afremiotti]

Another vote for Mamiya 645afd2 and RZ. I went with Leaf back though so I could use only one cable with the RZ and Arca Swiss. Also the screen is accurate enough to check focus mounted to a view camera on location, and since the files open up in photoshop very nicely I don't have to worry about people knowing leaf software unless I need to shoot tethered. Only problems I have with the Mamiya 645afd is shutter lag, and I had to return two lenses because they had issues. Both brand new, their turnaround on repair is fairly quick though and it is easy to find rental and used lenses.

[schotter]

By shutter lag, do you mean the time your auto focus needs to get ready?
The rental issue is also quite a big one in my case. As with the software, I need a camera system that is available almost everywhere.

[pss]

i have 2 645afdII bodies and several lenses...no shutter lag at all...
don't know if the manual/in lens shutter lenses work on the 645....that is what i have the RZ for....
the 28mm is coming..we are talking weeks not months....

[afremiotti]

By shutter lag I mean I can press the shutter and remove my finger before the camera shoots. On all my other cameras I can rest my finger just at the point of resistance and then shoot instantly when I press down. I almost never use the autofocus so it's not that. It's not as bad as a little point and shoot but is pretty unresponsive compared to my canons and the mechanical shutters on the RZ and copal shutters. I've noticed it in rental bodies too so I don't think it is just my camera.

[pprdigital]

By shutter lag I mean I can press the shutter and remove my finger before the camera shoots. On all my other cameras I can rest my finger just at the point of resistance and then shoot instantly when I press down. I almost never use the autofocus so it's not that. It's not as bad as a little point and shoot but is pretty unresponsive compared to my canons and the mechanical shutters on the RZ and copal shutters. I've noticed it in rental bodies too so I don't think it is just my camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102390\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andrea:

I think I know what you mean - that's always been my primary issue with the 645AFD, otherwise, it's not a bad camera and relatively inexpensive, compared to Hasselblad/Rollei. Both the 645AFD and the Rollei 6008 suffer from this, IMO. The Hasselblad H2 and Contax 645 offer the best response and feel. But I'll mention this to AFD owners sometimes, and they look at me like they don't know what I mean. It's a subjective feeling and everything is relative. It may feel perfectly natural to some. But to me it feels.......spongy would be the term I'd use.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com

[pss]

By shutter lag I mean I can press the shutter and remove my finger before the camera shoots. On all my other cameras I can rest my finger just at the point of resistance and then shoot instantly when I press down. I almost never use the autofocus so it's not that. It's not as bad as a little point and shoot but is pretty unresponsive compared to my canons and the mechanical shutters on the RZ and copal shutters. I've noticed it in rental bodies too so I don't think it is just my camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102390\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i just tried to shoot and lift my finger off..does not work...i have had several 645afds over the years and never had that problem...at all...just did a quick search for reviews, none mentin this in any way...this would be completely inacceptable!!! maybe i am crazy....how can you use a camera that does not shoot when you push the button? drives me insane with p&s...

of course af or dback not ready will delay the shot...but MF and the back ready or film....

[pss]

Andrea:

I think I know what you mean - that's always been my primary issue with the 645AFD, otherwise, it's not a bad camera and relatively inexpensive, compared to Hasselblad/Rollei. Both the 645AFD and the Rollei 6008 suffer from this, IMO. The Hasselblad H2 and Contax 645 offer the best response and feel. But I'll mention this to AFD owners sometimes, and they look at me like they don't know what I mean. It's a subjective feeling and everything is relative. It may feel perfectly natural to some. But to me it feels.......spongy would be the term I'd use.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102420\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

now the 6008 has the same problem? where does this come from...i had 2 6008af bodies, neither had any shutter lag.....the trigger on the handle is sometimes hard to push (i have big fingers) but there is no delay at all.....
maybe this is a personal "feeling" but i don't think this is based on any actual measurable fact.....for either camera...