Topic: output profiles (Read 2528 times)

jben_net · « **on:** February 20, 2007, 07:47:28 pm »

Are output profiles related at all to what colour space your using in photoshop (ie sRGB or adobeRGB) or do you have to work within a colourspace that is suited to an output profile.

61Dynamic · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2007, 11:15:33 pm »

Output profiles are related specifically to the particular output device and describe its character (such as a printer profile, or monitor profile). These are also known as device-dependant profiles. Your working space (what you set in PS) is a device-independant space and is meant for editing. You want a working space that encompasses the typical output space you use most so that you can fully utilize the output space. If your working space is smaller than the output, your output will ultimately have a smaller range of color than what is possible. Having a larger working space also affords you lee-way for editing and greater control of how that color gets converted to the output space.

Web output is the only time where the output profile is also a working space. The web requires the use of sRGB as an output profile since everything defaults to about that color gamut and the web is largely non-color managed.

AdobeRGB is a good all-around editing space for 8bpc editing. If you want to go further there is also ProPhoto RGB but it is so large it requires the use of 16bpc editing. Many photographers (myself included) find it worthwhile however because it lets us fully utilize the color gamut of pretty much any kind of output we could encounter.

eronald · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2007, 11:22:12 pm »

Quick and simple advice to newbies: Stay in sRGB. Your clients will see the right color, your costco prints will be the right color, your life will be wonderful. Sure you get less colors, but people will see them right. Once you pove to Adobe RGB or anything else, your printers and clients will need to be color savvy - believe me, most times they are not.

To make myself clearer: Color management is a well kept secret. Those who would benefit most from knowing it don't.

Oh, and by the way, this has nothing to do with output profiles, which describe a printer.

Edmund

61Dynamic · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2007, 11:08:35 am »

Better advice would be to not deliver image files in color spaces the client can't work with.

People coming to the LL for advice are the type who look for achieving quality work and not simply meeting the lowest common denominator. I think advise on this forum should be biased to that as well.

Since the question is about what differentiates a working space from an output space it would seem he is trying to learn the right process. Advising to work in sRGB steers him away from achieving higher-quality output and assumes he is not smart enough to make the appropriate color conversion needed for delivery. The fact he is even here indicates he is smarter than the average noob.

eronald · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2007, 10:30:54 pm »

It took me a long time to understand that sRGB is a good solution when working in a diverse enviromnment. I have paid so many times for not using sRGB because the client "understood" color.

Enough. Let's admit that the general level of education and efficiency regarding CMS in Prepress is zero, with the guys who "know" knowing even less.

And what you suggest, converting prior to sending, is a recipe for disaster. In a large job, you don't have time for last minute re-openings and conversions. If you set the color settings to sRGB before you start conversions, you will not be perfect but you will be perfectly safe.

Then when you send them sRGB you will certainly get less gamut, and probably get decent color. Send them anything else, and you will have nice color on *your* screen, and quite probably a mess in print, after which another photographer will get their next job.

As one nice lady put it to me "You don't know about light, your colors are rotten, we'll never work with you again, but we would really like to know where you managed to get the beautiful colorful shots that you showed us to get the job".

Edmund

PS. I have worked with people who knew about color, to whom I sent sRGB out of prudence. The results jumped off the page. sRGB may not be perfect, but it's not that bad for magazine work.

Quote

Better advice would be to not deliver image files in color spaces the client can't work with.

People coming to the LL for advice are the type who look for achieving quality work and not simply meeting the lowest common denominator. I think advise on this forum should be biased to that as well.

Since the question is about what differentiates a working space from an output space it would seem he is trying to learn the right process. Advising to work in sRGB steers him away from achieving higher-quality output and assumes he is not smart enough to make the appropriate color conversion needed for delivery. The fact he is even here indicates he is smarter than the average noob.
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jpgentry · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2007, 10:31:46 pm »

I have a question related to this. Why confine to a space at all? Why isn't it always assumed that you want the largest working environment that your capture equipment can attain and then narrow it down to the output devices limits? What is the use of a working space?

-Jonathan

Mussi_Spectraflow · « **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2007, 01:30:34 pm »

Quote

I have a question related to this. Why confine to a space at all? Why isn't it always assumed that you want the largest working environment that your capture equipment can attain and then narrow it down to the output devices limits? What is the use of a working space?

-Jonathan
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You should do you editing in some sort of working space, and it is exactly what it say... a color space that you do your work in. Working space allow for the use of colormanagement. Your digital captures will be converted to one of these working spaces, usually sRGB for consumer cameras and AdobeRGB for the pro crowd. Adobe RGB lets you maintain more of your captured colors and is a good choice if your intent is to output to a large gamut device such as a modern inkjet printer. sRGB will throw away a fair degree of information, however if your intent is to send you prints out to a lab that uses a light jet or Fuji Frontier this may give you the best results as these devices typically have a gamut that is close to the sRGB color space. If your intent is have you images commercially printed it is best to check with them to see what their policy's are. Yes many are still clueless, but this is changing.
My advice would be to work in Adobe RGB, this gives you versatility in output choices. Like sharpening conversions(in most cases) should be done as a final step and customized to specific output conditions.

Julian

61Dynamic · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2007, 01:48:48 pm »

Quote

I have a question related to this. Why confine to a space at all? Why isn't it always assumed that you want the largest working environment that your capture equipment can attain and then narrow it down to the output devices limits? What is the use of a working space?

-Jonathan
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Put simply, you cannot work with color without a color space to define it.

Author Topic: output profiles (Read 2528 times)