Topic: Mamiya ZD Back at PMA? (Read 7891 times)

John_Black · « **on:** February 12, 2007, 12:03:10 pm »

I checked the PMA exhibitor list and did not see Mamiya nor Cosmo Digital Imaging Co. Ltd.
http://services.pmai.org/PMA/Exhibitors/Ex...prg_id2=EXPMA07

In a post here from late January some one said the ZD back would be announced (maybe released?) in the US in 4 to 6 weeks - sounds like the PMA time-frame.
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....4524&hl=zd+back

Has anybody heard anything more?

david o · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2007, 12:23:18 pm »

seems that the ZD body is now available in Canada (vistek), don't know about US, or the back.

yaya · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2007, 02:21:45 pm »

MAC Group (Mamiya America Corporation) will be in booth B-181, as it says on that link.

Yair

John_Black · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2007, 03:25:22 pm »

Hehe... After some digging around I realized MAC group is who I should be looking for... I checked their website, not much there at all.

Graham Mitchell · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2007, 04:35:34 pm »

Given that MAC won't distribute the ZD camera, I wouldn't be too hopeful about the ZD back.

John_Black · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2007, 04:40:34 pm »

Anybody's guess is valid at this point. I sent emails and left some messages, so we'll see if anybody calls back... In the meantime I'm renting a P30 next month and we'll see how that goes. And PMA will be over and we'll know alot more.

pss · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2007, 06:53:49 pm »

Quote

Anybody's guess is valid at this point. I sent emails and left some messages, so we'll see if anybody calls back... In the meantime I'm renting a P30 next month and we'll see how that goes. And PMA will be over and we'll know alot more.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100541\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

if you are really waiting for the ZD back, i would not rent a P30 for now....it will ruin the ZD for you:)

not sure who you local rep is but either way he works for mac and either mac or mamiya US should be able to get you his number.....
i spoke with a rep in california and he said the ZD back will come out, the ZD body won't...

John_Black · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2007, 07:58:53 pm »

I'm staying far, far away from the P45 for that very reason!!! If the ZD back is the real deal, I'll probably go with it. The larger sensor is a big plus.

I'm working Digital Transitions (their Dallas office) and they know to call me when the used P25 & P30's start showing up. The sales rep won't speculate on prices at this time, so my idea of what the used price should be vs what they want could be pretty far apart. From various posts here, I think I have a reasonable idea what the numbers "should" be. We'll see...

I need to find a good, reputable Mamiya dealer w/ good prices. I've been focusing on the Phase Ones backs and haven't down my homework on the Mamiya side...

pss · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2007, 09:06:04 pm »

Quote

I'm staying far, far away from the P45 for that very reason!!! If the ZD back is the real deal, I'll probably go with it. The larger sensor is a big plus.

I'm working Digital Transitions (their Dallas office) and they know to call me when the used P25 & P30's start showing up. The sales rep won't speculate on prices at this time, so my idea of what the used price should be vs what they want could be pretty far apart. From various posts here, I think I have a reasonable idea what the numbers "should" be. We'll see...

I need to find a good, reputable Mamiya dealer w/ good prices. I've been focusing on the Phase Ones backs and haven't down my homework on the Mamiya side...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100574\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

the ZD back is still closer to the canons then to any back...12bit capture....

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2007, 10:43:50 pm »

Quote

the ZD back is still closer to the canons then to any back...12bit capture....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100584\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I see a clear difference between my Nikon D2x and the ZD in terms of DR and highlight transitions. I believe that the ZD is clearly ahead of the Canons as well.

Other having used both the ZD and a Leaf 22 have commented that the difference between these 2 is fairly small.

By the way, my guess is that the exact release date of the ZD back will be announced during the Japan camera show scheduled mid-March in Tokyo. This is just a guess.

Cheers,
Bernard

jimgolden · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2007, 12:58:01 am »

seems to me the ZD back strides the gap between the 1Ds Mk2 and the Phase gear, altho, much closer to the canon side of that canyon...

is it just me or does it seem almost not worth it for MAC to bring the ZD back here?? I could see the ZD body, certain users would jump all over that all in one solution, but the back? I dunno...not vs. a P series (altho used or refurb)

pss · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2007, 01:06:03 am »

i agree: the ZD is smack in the middle between the DSLRs and the backs....definitely an alternative if one can live with its shortcomings (which they all have in one way or another)....
the rep said that the ZD is too slow...i guess the back can shoot a little faster....but i also think this is a way to sell some 645 and RZ bodies or at least stop the bleeding.....
either way it is a welcome addition, even if long overdue....i wonder what the street price will be....9000list might be 8000 street? still that goes up against a new P20 which IMO provides a better file....(and can actually already be had for less...)

John_Black · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2007, 01:48:27 am »

For now the ZD back is still vapor-ware, but with the ZD there is some indication of its performance. After reading whatever I could on the internet the general impression I have from the ZD is:

1) More resolution than a 1Ds2, but the files are a bit soft compared to a Phase One or Aptus back. This is could be because of the RAW editor - many opinions...

2) ZD owners claim more dynamic range and better graduations over their 1Ds2's. I'm guessing there is some bit packing optimization with the 14 bit A/D converter and the 12-bit file size.

3) Mirror vibration / shutter slap has been noted as a downside. Other things like speed and the LCD are mentioned commonly too.

For $9-10.5k it's 22 MP and full-frame, so it's certainly is an impressive price point. I'm hoping the back would be better on a AFD II (better body?) and with 2 more years of supposed development, maybe some other areas have improved too. I don't expect a ZD back to trump a Phase One back, but I think it would give the 1Ds2 a good thumping.

I've used the 1Ds2 for just under 2 years and it's been a good camera. If Canon can improve the 1Ds3 (more resolution, some added DR, better graduations, cleaner shadows, etc), then there may not be much room in the US market for a ZD or ZD back. With both options at the same price point (more or less), I think the consumer has to value the 4x5 "look" vs the 35mm "look". The larger viewfinder is a plus too. The ZD (body & back) are a great alternative to the 1Ds2 (and 1Ds3 someday), and that's something where Phase One and others don't have a product.

The P20 is in that price point too - $7990 less a $1000 discount if you buy a Mamiya back. My problem with that back is the square format. My net image after crop would be around 12 MP. I know the P20 will have the edge in DR and graduations, but it's not a big enough step up from the 1Ds2 to justify the investment. If I didn't have a 1Ds2, then I think I'd be more open to a P20.

I'm hoping PMA brings more good news. And thank you Bernard for the tip on the Tokyo show. Now I won't be totally bummed out if there's no new at PMA regarding the ZD back.

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2007, 06:52:39 am »

Quote

i wonder what the street price will be....9000list might be 8000 street? still that goes up against a new P20 which IMO provides a better file....(and can actually already be had for less...)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100604\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Would you care to share with us what facts your opinion is based on?

Regards,
Bernard

marcwilson · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2007, 09:57:03 am »

But even if the zd back is at the same price point as the canon 1dsmk whatever it adds, for those that require and desire it, two great features...

1. The use of a medium format camera system and its inherent qualities plus the opportunity to switch to a film back in seconds for when that is needed.

and

2. the back can aso be used on view cameras for when movements are needed for interior, exterior, architectural work.

Of course the above points are the plus features of any digital back but an almost full frame one at a good price point..very good.

pss · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2007, 02:13:42 pm »

Quote

Would you care to share with us what facts your opinion is based on?

Regards,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100627\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

the price was quoted to me by the rep...
my opinion about the file quality is based on owning (or having owned) a 1DsmkII, a P20 and now a P30....i looked very hard at the ZD (i shoot mamiya now with my P30, 645afdII and RZ)...looked at any raw file i could get my hands on, porcessed it in any app i could get my hands on...
my personal opinion, which is of course based on my personal needs: i shoot fashiopn and people, not landscapes, mostly studio, high/clean iso necessary (sometimes)...i have no need for ultrawides or even wideangle....

so my ranking would be from worst to best: canon, ZD, P20....and honestly the ease, handling, high iso and same file characteristics (softer=needs sharpening, poor dark shadows, transitions) pretty much placed the canon almost the same as the ZD...the ZD is better, but the margin is small where it counts for me, but the canons have a lot of advantages (even if i don't really use them: AF,...)
the P20 provides files that are plenty big for me, even cropped down (i rarely go over 11x14) a P20 file blown up with GF looks better to me then a full size ZD or canon file....

the P30 is in a different league....and with the high iso and the + version coming out....it really is the best all-around back out there....phantastic resolution, fast shooting, clean 100, even 200, great "grainy" 800 (1600 with the +)...works on my 645 and my RZ....i forgot to mention that the deal i got on it put it in the same price range as the ZD...it was a complete no-brainer for me....

that said: i really believe for a landscape shooter, 100 only the ZD is a better alternative to the DSLRs...i don't think the 1DsmkIII will really change that....unless it is 16bit and they come out with better lenses.....but i don't see that happening...at least not in that price range....

Eric Zepeda · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2007, 04:15:15 pm »

MAC group had a ZD body at PhotoPlusExpo that was seemingly functional. Gist of the matter was that the software was so bad they weren't going to do anything until that was addressed.

John_Black · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2007, 04:32:58 pm »

DNG may be a good solution for Mamiya. If they don't want to spend money on software development, then they could work with Adobe and make sure the RAW files work well in CS2/ACR/Lightroom. I know that doesn't help with tethered operation...

rgmoore · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2007, 12:19:36 am »

Q's about your post. Are you able to see any differance in the IQ of P30 v P20?
In 11x14?
I read in your earlyer post that you are expceting the release of Hy6. If Hy6 turns out to have the Sinar sticker shock, would you consider the Mamiya RZ 110 / 210mm next best deal?
Thank You

Quote

the price was quoted to me by the rep...
my opinion about the file quality is based on owning (or having owned) a 1DsmkII, a P20 and now a P30....i looked very hard at the ZD (i shoot mamiya now with my P30, 645afdII and RZ)...looked at any raw file i could get my hands on, porcessed it in any app i could get my hands on...
my personal opinion, which is of course based on my personal needs: i shoot fashiopn and people, not landscapes, mostly studio, high/clean iso necessary (sometimes)...i have no need for ultrawides or even wideangle....

so my ranking would be from worst to best: canon, ZD, P20....and honestly the ease, handling, high iso and same file characteristics (softer=needs sharpening, poor dark shadows, transitions) pretty much placed the canon almost the same as the ZD...the ZD is better, but the margin is small where it counts for me, but the canons have a lot of advantages (even if i don't really use them: AF,...)
the P20 provides files that are plenty big for me, even cropped down (i rarely go over 11x14) a P20 file blown up with GF looks better to me then a full size ZD or canon file....

the P30 is in a different league....and with the high iso and the + version coming out....it really is the best all-around back out there....phantastic resolution, fast shooting, clean 100, even 200, great "grainy" 800 (1600 with the +)...works on my 645 and my RZ....i forgot to mention that the deal i got on it put it in the same price range as the ZD...it was a complete no-brainer for me....

that said: i really believe for a landscape shooter, 100 only the ZD is a better alternative to the DSLRs...i don't think the 1DsmkIII will really change that....unless it is 16bit and they come out with better lenses.....but i don't see that happening...at least not in that price range....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100682\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

John_Black · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2007, 12:52:42 pm »

I spoke with US Mamiya Service Manager this morning (the AFD2 went in a for a cleaning) and he said the ZD back should be announced shortly. He said end of February or early March - sounds like a PMA announcement or the Tokyo show??? Lets hope it really happens.

Author Topic: Mamiya ZD Back at PMA? (Read 7891 times)

yaya