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Jack Flesher

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What if?
« on: February 08, 2007, 10:28:27 am »

I have been thinking about something and am wondering what others here would think about it.  

What if there were a website that you could upload a full-sized print file to and order a true "custom lab" print, light-jet or ink-jet for reasonable prices?  By reasonable I mean you could get an 11x14 for $10, a 16x20 for around $14 and a 20x24 for $20.  Mounting, matting and framing would also be offered at similar wholesale pricing.  

1) Would you be interested in using a service like that and if so, how many prints do you think you would order over a one year period?

Now assume this site also offered as an additional service, a personalized web storefront for your images and automated the order fulfillment for you, including credit-card processing, paypal, etc, using the above printing and framing services.   Additionally you could have the option to "opt in" to an online "stock" photo agency where your posted images were offered for sale to commercial buyers needing decorative art (the kind of art that might be purchased in bulk to decorate a large new hotel).

2) Would you use the personalized website feature if it were free?

3) How likely would you be to use the opt-in stock feature IF there were a nominal member fee charged to offset the costs of marketing to commercial art buyers? (say $99/yr)?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Cheers,
« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 10:56:55 am by Jack Flesher »
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What if?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2007, 11:17:35 am »

Jack,

Your idea, in theory, sounds very attractive.  When you say "custom", just how "custom" are you thinking?  Just from a quick look at the Printers, Paper, & Inks section of the LL Forum, you'd need to offer quite a selection of fine art papers, probably have one (or more) large format printers each dedicated to either color/bw or matte/glossy printing.

I'd be interested in the storefront aspect, but not the stock, as my current DAM tools integrate easily enough with the stock sites I use.  The other issue with stock anyways is that each company has its own file requirements, standards, etc. which might prove difficult to work with in a one-size-fits-all setup.

Unless you're looking to start a non-profit, I don't see how you could offer the prices you suggest and free web space and make a profit...just from an overhead point of view.  But I sure would be interested in hearing more about your idea.

Seems there are companies catering to one or the other (storefront vs website) for photographers.  To have a true one stop shop to meet the needs of the pro photographer would be something I'd be very interested in.

Tim
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2007, 11:27:58 am »

Thanks Tim.

So to be clear, I am talking true custom lab quality with fully color-managed and maintained output.  The above prices would be for light-jet. Ink-jet on surfaced papers would run about $12, $22 and $32 respectively, rag and canvas more still, but all of that would be available at similar wholesale pricing.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 11:29:44 am by Jack Flesher »
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DarkPenguin

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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2007, 11:36:09 am »

I think I was complaining about the lack of such a service in these very forums.
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2007, 12:02:56 pm »

Quote
I think I was complaining about the lack of such a service in these very forums.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99854\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Okay, so somebody was listening  

Now, would you use it, and how many prints per year do you think you'd order for yourself?
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Dale_Cotton

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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2007, 12:29:37 pm »

I have zero experience outsourcing my printing, and a major reason for this is the requirement to send a print res image file. Just a strange hang-up artists sometimes have, but I'd need to take the image to the shop in person, then watch over the shoulder of the print guy (preferably with shotgun in hand) to make sure the image file doesn't inadvertently get copied to the shop's computer. ;)

Perhaps because of this lack of prior experience, I'm not clear what the difference is between the business model you're proposing and that offered by existing outfits like West Coast Imaging, Nash Editions, and Toronto Image Works. Is it primarily the price point and the storefront option?
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2007, 01:01:02 pm »

Quote
I'm not clear what the difference is between the business model you're proposing and that offered by existing outfits like West Coast Imaging, Nash Editions, and Toronto Image Works. Is it primarily the price point and the storefront option?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99872\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

First off, the differentiators are pricepoint for equivalent quality, the storefront and virtual order fulfillment.  Obviously, the last option means you would need to upload your image to our server for printing, OR be willing to mail in a CD/DVD with the image on it.  Part of our service is also building the web storefront using the print images (tiff) you send to build your web jpegs -- again, if you are unwilling to upload your image, this feature won't work  

Cheers,
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DarkPenguin

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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2007, 04:49:20 pm »

Quote
Okay, so somebody was listening  

Now, would you use it, and how many prints per year do you think you'd order for yourself?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99860\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, I would.  I'm not sure how many I'd order.

I suspect I'd try opting in on the suggested service.
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AWeil

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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2007, 05:38:04 pm »

Jack, in Europe, there are companies that offer that and more. As an example, look at: http://www.grieger-online.de/
Gursky is known to hire the entire facility complete with men and machines for two weeks (the Düsseldorf facitilty of the same company). After that, a large production is complete. They do take small orders though.

A company like Grieger is just the tip of the iceberg. There are countless others that specialize in different types of post production, some leaning more to printing others more to PS post - work, including 3 D modeling and stuff. The demand is growing, because professionals can not be perfect at everything, don't have the time to do it all and it does make sense not to invest in the hardware and time to learn the spiel if specialists are available to take up the task at reasonable prices.

Nevertheless, the 'more' is the important part. If a company does nothing else but print an image in a pleasing way in an average size, the 'prosumer' printers are the way to go. Or put it another way: Personally, I would not order from such a company because these needs can be met comfortably by an epson next to my desk. But I would order from a company like Grieger for special sizes and display technologies like alubond and coatings like diasec.

Greetings from Heidelberg, Germany
Angela
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2007, 07:44:09 pm »

Thank you all for your responses so far. I should probably clarify a few things though

1) Let me be perfectly clear, I am *NOT* going to be doing the printing myself! We have already contracted with existing custom labs (yes, ones you've heard of) to fulfill the print orders, ditto custom framing shops. Custom labs give us better pricing due to the net volume we supply, that's how we get good prices to our members.

2) I reiterate, we are planning to offer a total, turn-key, e-commerce enabled website for our members. This is in addition to the order fulfillment feature and in addition to marketing their work to potential COMMERCIAL art buyers. The fact this is all integrated into a one-stop shop for the artist is what makes it somewhat unique comapred to other companies offering only some of these parts.

3) There are two distinct types of art sales -- collectible and decorative. The artist selling collectible art is going to want to personally inspect and hand-sign each and every print they sell, whereas decorative art may be sold without that level of artist interaction, though it certainly can be. If you sell collectible art, you still might want to use our printing services and possibly mounting and matting services, but it is unlikely you would use our framing partners since you would want to inspect and sign the print before it was framed and delivered. The commercial buyers we are promoting artist's work to might want 50 copies of a single image to be part of the collective body of work that decorates say a new 1000-room hotel in Las Vegas. This type of work is usually sold at lower prices than collectible art, usually is not limited to a specific edition and it is unlikely an artist would feel the need to touch every piece before cashing the check. Obviously, an Artist may sell both types of work and our system would support both or either to varying dgrees.

4) Lastly, our fulfillment services might be useful even if you have an Epson 9800 sitting next to your desk. For example, I have a friend who has been asked to produce 25 images of specific size for a gallery show. He has an Epson large format printer, but is outsourcing this particular print job due to personal time constraints.

Cheers,
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tgphoto

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« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2007, 08:09:55 pm »

Jack,

Thanks for the clarification.  One more question, if you don't mind.  You make mention of connecting photographers with commercial art buyers, but what about fine art buyers?  galleries and the like?

Thanks!

Tim
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2007, 09:32:10 pm »

Quote
Jack,

Thanks for the clarification.  One more question, if you don't mind.  You make mention of connecting photographers with commercial art buyers, but what about fine art buyers?  galleries and the like?

Thanks!

Tim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99952\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's a good question Tim.  I would define "fine art" as collectible art per my above description.  Certainly, we will have artists that market themselves in that fashion and offer their art for sale on the personalized website -- simply because ours will be a convenient and cost-efficient solution to that end.  

Less certain is if will we have gallery owners browsing our member's art in the hopes of "discovering" some new artist.  While it may happen, it is not something we are attempting to build into our business model.  With our model, we're focusing on finding that commercial "decorative" art buyer to place an order for 3000 pieces from our artist gallery to fill out that 1000-room hotel in Vegas.

Make sense?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 10:31:06 am by Jack Flesher »
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2007, 08:19:24 am »

Makes perfect sense.  Sounds like a solid idea.
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jani

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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2007, 06:58:24 am »

Jack, what you propose is nearly ideal for someone like me, except for some uncertainties regarding having a business arrangement in the US (I assume) when I'm based in Norway. But it apparently would increase the potential of sales for me, while keeping my effort to the bare necessities of art and accounting.

Colour me tentatively interested.


Angela, thanks for the pointers to European services.
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