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Author Topic: Sinar eVolution 75H or Leaf Aptus 65 ?  (Read 8309 times)

karayuschij

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Sinar eVolution 75H or Leaf Aptus 65 ?
« on: February 06, 2007, 03:36:33 am »

Well, first of all I must greet all the nice people of this very interesting forum: Hello!

We are about to buy a Sinar P3, but we have a great doubt about what back to buy.

The alternatives are:

• Sinar eVolution 75H (33 Mp)
• Leaf Aptus 65 (29 Mp)

The difference of resolution is not a lot and has not a big influence on our choice
The difference of price is a little influent (about 5000 euros) but not so much because what is more important for us is the quality of the generated images, and the easy way to use the back.

We are an advertising agency in Kiev, with a photo studio. Our works are from still-life, interiors, people to fashion.

According the experts of this forum, what is the best solution?
What are the pro and con of these backs (eVolution has no monitor and can't use a flash card, and must be used with a computer, for example... is this a con? What about 4-shot and 16-shot modes?)

I thank you for you answers.

_Alain
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Morgan_Moore

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Sinar eVolution 75H or Leaf Aptus 65 ?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2007, 06:59:35 am »

The evolution is very specialised in four shot the files will be far better than the leaf

BUT the need to shoot alway to a computer is really best for people strictly in the studio

four shot wont work with people

What about the emotion 33

I think the hassy backs offer single shot shooting away from the computer AND multishot in the studio

THe files from 39mp chip back single shot are very very good - do you really need the extra quality ??

Good luck

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

karayuschij

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Sinar eVolution 75H or Leaf Aptus 65 ?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2007, 08:08:15 am »

Quote
The evolution is very specialised in four shot the files will be far better than the leaf

BUT the need to shoot alway to a computer is really best for people strictly in the studio

four shot wont work with people

What about the emotion 33

I think the hassy backs offer single shot shooting away from the computer AND multishot in the studio

THe files from 39mp chip back single shot are very very good - do you really need the extra quality ??

Good luck

SMM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99424\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Oh yes, I have not thought about Sinar eMotion 75 (because they didn't make me an offer for this...)

So, according to you it is better that the Leaf Aptus?

About the hassy I can't say nothing, I don't know it (where can I find something interesting about it?)

Thanx a lot.
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thsinar

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Sinar eVolution 75H or Leaf Aptus 65 ?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2007, 09:21:14 am »

Quote
Well, first of all I must greet all the nice people of this very interesting forum: Hello!

We are about to buy a Sinar P3, but we have a great doubt about what back to buy.

The alternatives are:

• Sinar eVolution 75H (33 Mp)
• Leaf Aptus 65 (29 Mp)

The difference of resolution is not a lot and has not a big influence on our choice
The difference of price is a little influent (about 5000 euros) but not so much because what is more important for us is the quality of the generated images, and the easy way to use the back.

We are an advertising agency in Kiev, with a photo studio. Our works are from still-life, interiors, people to fashion.

According the experts of this forum, what is the best solution?
What are the pro and con of these backs (eVolution has no monitor and can't use a flash card, and must be used with a computer, for example... is this a con? What about 4-shot and 16-shot modes?)

I thank you for you answers.

_Alain
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99415\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dear Alain,

I think first you ave to define your needs and the use of it.

You are speaking about quality: I can assure you that a multishot back will give you the ultimate quality and the best possible files, whatever one tells you. Any single shot has only one basic colour registered for each pixel, thus missing 2 basic colours. The interpolation is doing the calculations of the 2 missing colours and thus will produce more or less accurate files depending on the subject, with more or less artifacts and/or Moiré issues. The multishot function makes sure that each pixel gets the information for the 3 colours (atually 1xR, 1xB and 2xG), thus there is no interpolation or guess work necessary to find out the 2 missing ones: you get a file with true colours, without artifacts and no Moiré.
However, the multishot can be used only with stills, not with moving subjects.
One imortant issue when shooting in multishot mode is the choice of the lenses: you need digital lenses on the p3. The HR (High Resolution) digital lenses built for the p3 are the one giving the best possibe quality in multishot mode.

The eVolution 75 with its 33 MPx is the latest multishot from Sinar. Beside its multishot function it can of course also shoot in single-shot mode, however tethered and with no display. Though the design is small and handy and it makes it a versatile back for ultimate quality in studio and on location or for fashion shooting on location.

To get an idea from a user of the real quality and difference between a multishot and a single shot file, you can contact Rainer Viertlböck (rehnniar on this forum): he has very recently shot a very critical job for which utimate quality was required by the customer. After a few tests between single and multishot, the results have shown that he could achieve the best only with the multishot. Contact him and he will be certainly be able to show and explain you the differences with some examples better than myself.

Obviously, and if your main work is fashion and on location, then I would rather recommend a singleshot only back, like the eMotion 75 (33 MPx), with its fast shooting rate of 1.5 frame/sec, without buffer and without slowdown, having an internal hard-state memory of 6 GB beside the normal ossibility of use of CF-Cards. The display of this back is among the brightest you can find, viewable from any angle: it is not a LCD-display, but an OLED-display.

So, it is defintively a question of what are the needs you have: a single shot would certainly be better in terms of portability and for untethered work. However, only a multishot back like the eVolution 75 can give you both, single shot and multishot in Studio for the ultimate quality.

Both can of course be used on a p3, and adapter plates are available for any common MF cameras.

I am at your disposal if you have other questions.

Best regards,
Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland
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Thierry Hagenauer
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fpoole

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Sinar eVolution 75H or Leaf Aptus 65 ?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2007, 09:29:06 am »

Alain,

I use a sinarback 54H on a P3 mostly for product and still life.  I believe the 75H is the next generation of this back.
The 54 is pretty good in single shot mode.  A little slow for people but still very useable on a contax 645.

In 4-shot mode the file quality is exceptional.  So far I have seen nothing that is better for color fidelity and lack of artifacts and moire.  I only rarely need to use 16-shot.  I don't think the 75H has 16 shot mode  but it is really not necessary.
 And once you use live video you will never want to use anything else.
At first it took me a little while to get used to.  Now I can't imagine working any other way.  It makes composing and focus so easy and fast.  
It's a big investment.  I suggest using each system in the studio for a day.  Compare 1-shot capture to 4-shot.  Depending on what you are photgraphing the difference can be subtle or huge.
 Get used to the software.  Captureshop is simple and stable.  It has limited capablilities but is perfect for still life workflow.
You will hear many different opinions - all of them valid-but there is no substitue for hands-on testing.

Best,
Frank Poole

thsinar

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Sinar eVolution 75H or Leaf Aptus 65 ?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2007, 09:55:32 am »

Quote
Alain,

I use a sinarback 54H on a P3 mostly for product and still life.  I believe the 75H is the next generation of this back.
The 54 is pretty good in single shot mode.  A little slow for people but still very useable on a contax 645.

In 4-shot mode the file quality is exceptional.  So far I have seen nothing that is better for color fidelity and lack of artifacts and moire.  I only rarely need to use 16-shot.  I don't think the 75H has 16 shot mode  but it is really not necessary.
 And once you use live video you will never want to use anything else.
At first it took me a little while to get used to.  Now I can't imagine working any other way.  It makes composing and focus so easy and fast. 
It's a big investment.  I suggest using each system in the studio for a day.  Compare 1-shot capture to 4-shot.  Depending on what you are photgraphing the difference can be subtle or huge.
 Get used to the software.  Captureshop is simple and stable.  It has limited capablilities but is perfect for still life workflow.
You will hear many different opinions - all of them valid-but there is no substitue for hands-on testing.

Best,
Frank Poole
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99438\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Frank,

I can only agree with all your comments. And yes, the 54 H is a fantastic back, also in single-shot mode, though a bit bigger than the new generation eVolution, but with largely enough resolution for most of the work to be done.

And again: try it out by yourself, there is no other way to make its own opinion and get convinced.

Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland
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Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com

rainer_v

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Sinar eVolution 75H or Leaf Aptus 65 ?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2007, 10:25:50 am »

i am usually working on location with the eMotion75 and the eMotion22, but i just finished a large studio production shooting with a a sinar 54h in 16 shot mode,- shooting here backup files in 4 shot mode.
i 100% agree with the things said above,- if you are working only in studio you could go for the eVolution or for the 54h, which is exceptional good also in 4shot mode. the mp difference from 22mp in 4shot ( 54h ) mode to 33mp in 1shot mode is marginal. as said above the color fidelity and the miss of moiree in multishots is really impressive. i have shot my ( textil ) production in 16 shot mode,- the resolution is breath-taking, but i also believe with the new eVolution backs in 33mp 4shot will also be fantastic ( its alreadyy fantastic in the 54h, but you will gain the chance to crop your images and still have double page / 300 dpi ).

some weeks ago i published in LL a direct comparision of shots from the e75 to the 54h in 16shot mode.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=13976

about the aptus 65/75 or the emotion75 : for me at the moment its a "no-brainer" to go the emotion way, cause the sinar backs are ready develloped, which means they dont have "children-illnesses" as the centerfold issue, where the aptus still suffer from.
 also the emotions delivers i.m.o. the far better wrkflow, offering their own sinar capture shop software and also third party software from brumbaer, which is very fast and delivers a real hi-end dng workflow.
the workflow is for me one of the most deciding point in professional use,- but ofcourse its also not nice if there might appear heavy flaws in digital backs of this price class, which can press you to give back one back after the other if you simply have bad luck........
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rainer viertlböck
architecture photograp

karayuschij

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Sinar eVolution 75H or Leaf Aptus 65 ?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2007, 10:32:07 am »

Frank & Thierry - Merci!!!

Your answers helped me a lot to understand better.
I am in a strange situation: French guy with only experience of work in Italy that has to choose Sinar equipment for Ukrainian company   (I work there now).

So here in Kiev there is not a Sinar - Broncolor dealer and we had to ask to the one of Moscow.
Offer has arrived in russian,  difficult for me to understand, so very difficult for me to discuss with the head of the company.

The big problem that I have in having to take a decision is that I have no possibility to try this equipment here (we will be probably the first to have Sinar digital camera in Kiev [and Broncolor too]) So you can understand that it is not easy to buy a product so good, but not so cheap... without have the possibility to touch it or to try it.

I am a Sinar user for always and thinking to use some other equipment is very difficult for me.
For the moment I have no other question. I think that we will begin with a simple configuration of base, without the live video (do you speak about LC Shutter?) and then will improve our equipment.

Thanx a lot again!
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karayuschij

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Sinar eVolution 75H or Leaf Aptus 65 ?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2007, 10:46:30 am »

Hi Rehnniar! Thanx too you too.
If have seen the thread with your photos of fabrics.
Yes, it is very good and very interesting too.
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