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Author Topic: Soft proofing - working space question  (Read 2670 times)

markhout

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Soft proofing - working space question
« on: January 29, 2007, 01:13:36 pm »

If the goal of image editing is the final print - what is the compelling reason to use ProPhoto, or AdobeRGB or a similar profile as the working space in Photoshop, and not the printer/paper profle?

If I understand soft proofing correctly, it seeks to match the image under the printer/paper profile with the image as edited in the working space.

So why not use the printer/paper profile as the working space, and print with color management switched entirely off in the drivers?

I'm using Epson K3 inks.

I've been following the thread on color management in http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....159&mode=linear and the answer seems to be that ProPhoto may be able to provide values in the editing process that wouldn't be there under the printer/paper profile.

Would be great if someone could confirm that. Frankly, I don't see any difference in prints printed the one way (with ProPhoto as the working space) or the other (with the printer/paper profile as the working space).

Thanks!
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madmanchan

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Soft proofing - working space question
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2007, 02:13:48 pm »

While editing images (color adjustments, tone adjustments, etc.), you need a big enough working space so that you don't accidentally clip colors by exceeding the working space's gamut. ProPhoto has a big gamut and it's very unlikely you'd go out its gamut.

The problem with using the output space (e.g., the color space determined by a specific printer profile) as your primary working space is that the output space is typically much more limited in gamut. So you have less room in which to work, so to speak. Also, what if you want to print the same image on different papers or different printers? Then you have to convert from one to the other. Not necessarily a bad thing, but suppose the target device has a bigger gamut. Well, since all of your colors are already clipped to the first device's smaller gamut, you won't realize the benefits of the target device's bigger gamut.

As an analogy, suppose you moved into a tiny studio apartment with 1 room. You can't fit all your belongings in that 1 room, so you throw some out. Then a month later, you move into a 2-room apartment. Now you have more space in which to place your remaining belongings, but you can't get back the ones you already threw out earlier.


Eric
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Eric Chan

markhout

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Soft proofing - working space question
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2007, 02:41:41 pm »

Quote
As an analogy, suppose you moved into a tiny studio apartment with 1 room. You can't fit all your belongings in that 1 room, so you throw some out. Then a month later, you move into a 2-room apartment. Now you have more space in which to place your remaining belongings, but you can't get back the ones you already threw out earlier.
Eric
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Gotcha. Thanks Eric, I'll now do some tests with exceptionally saturated colors and see what happens.

Best,

Mark
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colourperfect

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Soft proofing - working space question
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2007, 05:14:22 am »

Hi,

Also remmeber that you may want to print the image on a different printer with a different gamut.

Keeping the generic working space allows you to do this without compromising quality.

Ian

http://www.colourperfect.co.uk

Quote
If the goal of image editing is the final print - what is the compelling reason to use ProPhoto, or AdobeRGB or a similar profile as the working space in Photoshop, and not the printer/paper profle?

If I understand soft proofing correctly, it seeks to match the image under the printer/paper profile with the image as edited in the working space.

So why not use the printer/paper profile as the working space, and print with color management switched entirely off in the drivers?

I'm using Epson K3 inks.

I've been following the thread on color management in http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....159&mode=linear and the answer seems to be that ProPhoto may be able to provide values in the editing process that wouldn't be there under the printer/paper profile.

Would be great if someone could confirm that. Frankly, I don't see any difference in prints printed the one way (with ProPhoto as the working space) or the other (with the printer/paper profile as the working space).

Thanks!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98116\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Stephen Best

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Soft proofing - working space question
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2007, 06:32:36 am »

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If the goal of image editing is the final print - what is the compelling reason to use ProPhoto, or AdobeRGB or a similar profile as the working space in Photoshop, and not the printer/paper profle?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It's not a good idea to use the output space for editing, except perhaps for fine tuning the image gamut just prior to printing on that (and only that) printer/paper combination. Equal red, green and blue values won't necessarily result in neutral grays. Nor is it likely to be particularly linear. If you need to standardize I'd stick with something perceptually uniform like Adobe RGB, or maybe the larger Beta RGB if an image really warrants it. You can download the latter from here:

[a href=\"http://www.brucelindbloom.com/]http://www.brucelindbloom.com/[/url]

There's also an excellent discussion/comparison of working spaces on the Info page. A working space with a gamma of 2.2 will distribute the values equally across the highlights and shadows. In reality though, the working space has little impact on the printed results for typical real world images. Use whatever you feel comfortable with and that has the granularity for editing you need to achieve the results you want. ProPhoto RGB would be my last choice as a working space.
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