Hasselblad release H3D 31

[godtfred]

You and I agree that workflow is key. I don't agree that Flexcolor takes a back seat there.

Steve Hendrix
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97481\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have to agree with Steve on this, I have tried C1 several times, and am now using Flexcolor daily. I fail to see where Flexcolor comes short of C1, unless we are talking learning curve where I think its slightly steeper in flex, yet that means little in the long run.

Flex also offers some stuff that C1 does not, an example of this is the excellent DAC II funtions that takes care of a lot of lens defects, something that in my opinion is far more important than a clean modern user interface (C1 certainly is better in this respect than the old interface flex has going...)

On another note in this discussion, where HB is again mentioned for the H3D and some of the backward compatibility issues, one should not forget other back makers and their promises. A lot of the things that I got from dealers when I considered Phase (and had several loaners to test) was the "wireless device is just around the corner", "Cheap upgrades makes it a secure future investment", "C1 will have lens correction software any moment", "Phase One is the best integration with H-bodies" etc. Most if this was/is severely premature information, and some just does not appear on the model that was being presented to me at the time, but may come in future product releases... I think that HB is no worse in this aspect, as a promise of a future that does not appear, or a promise from the past abandoned, is not so different.

I think its time to aknowledge that Hasselblad (imacon) is not behind Phase One. It is my honest opinion that these digital back makers are about equal and have different things going to set them apart, but not take the lead.

-axel

[pss]

the P30 has been shipping for over a year and has the same specs as the new! amazing! almost fullframe! cheap! hass H31...and in my book the speed is the same, sorry but i am sure it feels the same, i am also sure i could not time the difference without fancy equipment...so the speed is the same....
i won't say what i paid for my P30 a couple of months ago, but it was a lot less then the price quoted for the H31...
the P30+ will be shipping in a few weeks and is faster then the P30 and has one extra stop...add to that (what could be considered marketing speak) better color, better DR and cleaner shadows and the P30+ is clearly one year ahead of the H31.....just like the shipping date suggests....
not sure where the confusion can be....

i have compared the hass backs to the phase backs and they are good, but not quite as good, especially after the files come out of C1...flexcolor is a very very solid software, but not quite C1....which btw will be upgraded as well and should be out not long after the P+ series ships and with my experience with phase products, i will get better color and better DR and cleaner shadows...and blazing speed with C1v4......at "almost full frame" as well


a story on the side: i had to watch a situation at a store a couple of weeks ago....
a photographer came into the store as i was there as well, she ha dbeen shooting hass V for 30 years....was looking into digital....of course she first asks for the hass solution, gets handed a H body with Hback (probably H3, not sure)...is obviously very very confused, the dealer patiently explains some basics, she looks at all the hass logos, posters,...takes a flier....listens to the price, of course the body is so much, hass quality,bla,bla, bla,...leaves...
i am sure if she does buy a system, she will buy the H with a H back...will she be happy? i am sure, it is a great product....could she buy a cheaper product better suited for her? probably....i am sure she does not have the time or really the interest to dive into one of these forums and get her head twisted...she will buy the brand that has helped her in the last 30 years and she probably does not have any reason to change now....
i guess i am way too much of a geek and pixelpeeper and have invested waaaaaaay too much time to not spend my money on the best (or what i regard as the best) solution for me....i am pretty sure most of the people in this forum are in the same situation as me...which is why it sometimes gets heated and irrational....
but just like giving your client too many options often isn't a good thing....if she would have walked out with leaf, phase, sinar, hass, but only on hass, the others on only H1/2, others on contax, mamiya, but only up to 1/125, but wait, the Hy6 is on the horizon, so maybe emotion (i thought that was sinar, yes it is, but there is also sinar) and that is not even mentioning the software...do you print on epson, canon or HP? the new ones calibrate themselves.....she would have left with her head spinning....

anyway i hope i made a point, got a little carried away.... as always.....

my new years resolution, spend less time reading the LL forum, especially the posts that really don't even concern me, but i know will get my blood boiling....

PS: i just read through my post and hope nobody reads this as some kind of sexist statement...this just happened to be a woman...go to any counter, there are just as many men in the same situation.....

[pprdigital]

the P30 has been shipping for over a year and has the same specs as the new! amazing! almost fullframe! cheap! hass H31...and in my book the speed is the same, sorry but i am sure it feels the same, i am also sure i could not time the difference without fancy equipment...so the speed is the same....
i won't say what i paid for my P30 a couple of months ago, but it was a lot less then the price quoted for the H31...
the P30+ will be shipping in a few weeks and is faster then the P30 and has one extra stop...add to that (what could be considered marketing speak) better color, better DR and cleaner shadows and the P30+ is clearly one year ahead of the H31.....just like the shipping date suggests....
not sure where the confusion can be....

i have compared the hass backs to the phase backs and they are good, but not quite as good, especially after the files come out of C1...flexcolor is a very very solid software, but not quite C1....which btw will be upgraded as well and should be out not long after the P+ series ships and with my experience with phase products, i will get better color and better DR and cleaner shadows...and blazing speed with C1v4......at "almost full frame" as well
a story on the side: i had to watch a situation at a store a couple of weeks ago....
a photographer came into the store as i was there as well, she ha dbeen shooting hass V for 30 years....was looking into digital....of course she first asks for the hass solution, gets handed a H body with Hback (probably H3, not sure)...is obviously very very confused, the dealer patiently explains some basics, she looks at all the hass logos, posters,...takes a flier....listens to the price, of course the body is so much, hass quality,bla,bla, bla,...leaves...
i am sure if she does buy a system, she will buy the H with a H back...will she be happy? i am sure, it is a great product....could she buy a cheaper product better suited for her? probably....i am sure she does not have the time or really the interest to dive into one of these forums and get her head twisted...she will buy the brand that has helped her in the last 30 years and she probably does not have any reason to change now....
i guess i am way too much of a geek and pixelpeeper and have invested waaaaaaay too much time to not spend my money on the best (or what i regard as the best) solution for me....i am pretty sure most of the people in this forum are in the same situation as me...which is why it sometimes gets heated and irrational....
but just like giving your client too many options often isn't a good thing....if she would have walked out with leaf, phase, sinar, hass, but only on hass, the others on only H1/2, others on contax, mamiya, but only up to 1/125, but wait, the Hy6 is on the horizon, so maybe emotion (i thought that was sinar, yes it is, but there is also sinar) and that is not even mentioning the software...do you print on epson, canon or HP? the new ones calibrate themselves.....she would have left with her head spinning....

anyway i hope i made a point, got a little carried away.... as always.....

my new years resolution, spend less time reading the LL forum, especially the posts that really don't even concern me, but i know will get my blood boiling....

PS: i just read through my post and hope nobody reads this as some kind of sexist statement...this just happened to be a woman...go to any counter, there are just as many men in the same situation.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97545\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Paul:

It's certainly a good illustration of the difficulty in determining an appropriate path with MFDB's these days. That is one of the challenges in selling multiple systems (with more on the way) - show too much, and confuse the issue, show too little, and unnecessarily limit the appropriate solutions.

I believe if someone has been shooting with Hasselblad for years (V-series Hasselblad) as the lady in your story has, then their options are putting a DB on their V-system, or looking at a new DB/Camera combo. And just because it says Hasselblad on an H3D, does not mean that they should naturally go in that direction. Compared to where Hasselblad has been traditionally, it's only a name.

Paul - you're a credit to the forum here, because you bring it with enthusiasm and passion.

But I do have to note that your statement about the P30+ shooting faster than the H3D-31 is not correct. (1.2 spf vs 1.25) That's virtually a dead-heat. But it's right on the data sheets, so it's a statistical comparison, not subjective. It does have an extra stop - so until Hasselblad expands that, edge there to the P30+. Although the P30+ is not shipping today. As of today, the H3D-31 matches the P30. When the P30+ ships, we'll see where Hasselblad is at that time with respect to ISO. Regarding color, dynamic range, cleaner shadows, well, those are more subjective and susceptible to opinion. My opinion holds that the color, DR and shadows on an H3D-31 do not take a back seat to the P30. But that is just my opinion. No one, including me has yet compared a P30 to an H3D-31. That will be happening starting right now, and then we'll see.

I don't agree about year behind or behind at all. Ultimately, though, the market will decide. And that's the way it should be.

On a side note, I did confirm today that the H3D-31 will ship with the standard kit, including body, viewfinder and 80mm lens. This is in the USA, the rumors of body only may be from another part of the globe, and I'm sure the price will reflect that.

Steve Hendrix

[Robin Casady]

a story on the side: i had to watch a situation at a store a couple of weeks ago....
a photographer came into the store as i was there as well, she ha dbeen shooting hass V for 30 years....was looking into digital....

....i am sure she does not have the time or really the interest to dive into one of these forums and get her head twisted...she will buy the brand that has helped her in the last 30 years and she probably does not have any reason to change now....

i guess i am way too much of a geek and pixelpeeper and have invested waaaaaaay too much time to not spend my money on the best (or what i regard as the best) solution for me....i am pretty sure most of the people in this forum are in the same situation as me...which is why it sometimes gets heated and irrational....

anyway i hope i made a point, got a little carried away.... as always.....

my new years resolution, spend less time reading the LL forum, especially the posts that really don't even concern me, but i know will get my blood boiling....

PS: i just read through my post and hope nobody reads this as some kind of sexist statement...this just happened to be a woman...go to any counter, there are just as many men in the same situation.....
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think I understand how that photographer felt (and I'm male). I had a similar experience. I walked into a Calumet store to pick up a 70-200mm f/2.8 VR lens for a D2x and asked about medium format digital. I've been shooting medium format film (on an amateur basis) since 1972, been using Photoshop since it was on floppy disks, and using a DSLR since the Nikon D100 came out. MF digital is a whole 'nother animal, it seems. There are many issues with MFD that a Nikon DSLR user doesn't face. I felt like a fish out of water while trying to understand the issues the Calumet store manager was talking about. She let me play with an H3D and one of the appealing aspects was the sense that it seemed like a well integrated system. This could entirely be illusion, but I got the sense that Hasselblad had really thought this system out well and covered most of the pitfalls.

There was sort of a comfortable feeling with the H3D. The questions and issues that occurred to me had been taken care of.  Rather than feeling like I would be trying to make a complex digital back work with a camera designed for film. The H3D seemed like my D2x, a digital camera system. So, I can see that a busy professional, who knows little about MFD, but needs to assimilate the technology quickly, would find the HD3 very appealing. I don't know that the H3D would smoothly in integrate into a workflow without caveots, but that is how it felt.

This sort of thing seems to be typical of our times. Technology has provided us with amazing tools and toys, but they can be very complex. Someone wanting to make use of new tools can face a steep learning curve. Want to upgrade your TV to High Def. with surround sound? Sorting out all the issues with HD, Blu-Ray DVD vs. HD-DVD, HDMI connections, receivers, speakers, etc. is like doing a PhD thesis. A lot of people end up with Bose DVD/sound systems that would make an Home Theater geek cry. Why, because Bose puts together a system that minimizes the amount of thinking a buyer has to do, and they market the heck out of it. I'm not equating Hasselblad to Bose. I'm just saying that taking the mental strain out of a high-tech purchase decision will have great appeal to those who don't have the time or inclination to become scholars on the subject.

Me, I'm enough of a geek that I'm going to read forums for awhile and try and get an understanding of the issues and opinions in MFD before I take the leap. However, if the H3D had been the price of a D2x, I probably would have walked out of Calumet with one and not bothered to look at the other possibilities.

Regards,
Robin Casady
[a href=\"http://www.robincasady.com]http://www.robincasady.com[/url]

[KenRexach]

Hasselblad is preparing its lineup from the inminent release of the new 20mp+ Canon 1Ds "mk3". The H3D-22 wont make much sense (marketing wise) after Canon releases its new flagship model.

Buying into MF digital is VERY confusing like has been mentioned and even today one can get burned and get the wrong system. Hasselblad really seperates itself from the rest by offering the integrated solution. For better or worse its nice to have an MFG taking that approach so there is a choice for those who dont want research their minds out in finding the right combination of camera and MFDB.

[Morgan_Moore]

Hasselblad is preparing its lineup from the inminent release of the new 20mp+ Canon 1Ds "mk3". The H3D-22 wont make much sense (marketing wise) after Canon releases its new flagship model.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98013\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The H3D 22 will still have appeal as the chip is larger and will therefore have still a better viewing experience, less DOF and higher synch speed than the Canon

Buying into MF digital is VERY confusing like has been mentioned and even today one can get burned and get the wrong system. Hasselblad really seperates itself from the rest by offering the integrated solution. For better or worse its nice to have an MFG taking that approach so there is a choice for those who dont want research their minds out in finding the right combination of camera and MFDB.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98013\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The main drawback of H3 seires is surely lack of any lenses with Rise/Fall and the limited range of second hand lenses and the extra costs implied by this

SMM