Mamiya 35 with Zoerk on a 5D

[bdkphoto]

I'd love to hear the collective thoughts on using a Mamiya 35 (645 manual focus) with the zoerk shift on a 5D? Anyone have practical experience using it, and is it sharp when shifted. I'll be using it primarily for arch, and interiors.  Any other options for shift with the 28 - 35mm focal range for the 5D (and a reasonable budget) Converting a 28 nikkor pc, and older canon 35 ts etc?

TIA

[yaya]

I'd love to hear the collective thoughts on using a Mamiya 35 (645 manual focus) with the zoerk shift on a 5D? Anyone have practical experience using it, and is it sharp when shifted. I'll be using it primarily for arch, and interiors.  Any other options for shift with the 28 - 35mm focal range for the 5D (and a reasonable budget) Converting a 28 nikkor pc, and older canon 35 ts etc?

TIA
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How about the Cambo X2-Pro?


[a href=\"http://www.cambo.com/Html/news/set01/english/internet/ItemHome27.html]http://www.cambo.com/Html/news/set01/engli...ItemHome27.html[/url]

Takes Mamiya 645 lenses and allows for tilt/ swing as well as shift.

[rainer_v]

i was using the mamiya 35 with the 1ds2 and the zoerk. although not bad, the pentax 35af is much better.
the cambo dont work for wideangles.

[rethmeier]

That's a Schneider 28 mm!
Wider than a 35FA

[attachment=1570:attachment]

[rainer_v]

That's a Schneider 28 mm!
Wider than a 35FA

[attachment=1570:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96209\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

hm. all i know about is that....
cause you are far away from the camera mount resp. the sensor with the cambo solution....
maybe the 28digitar is soooooo retrofocal that it allows that... so i would be surprised.
i dont doubt that you can mount anything you want, but i cant see how it could focus to infinity, maybe for close ups.

[bdkphoto]

I played with the cambo x2 yesterday at Calumet here in NYC, and its probably the best solution with that 28 digitar but it costs $4K US for the set up as pictured.  That's just too much since I will be moving up to MF Digital soon enough and would like to spend much less. I really don't need the full movements.  Shift is enough for now, I'm looking for something a bit better than the Canon 24TS which is OK, but not great.

rehnniar- what is the pentax 35af you are referring to, is it that much better than the Mamiya 35?

[yaya]

I played with the cambo x2 yesterday at Calumet here in NYC, and its probably the best solution with that 28 digitar but it costs $4K US for the set up as pictured.  That's just too much since I will be moving up to MF Digital soon enough and would like to spend much less. I really don't need the full movements.  Shift is enough for now, I'm looking for something a bit better than the Canon 24TS which is OK, but not great.

rehnniar- what is the pentax 35af you are referring to, is it that much better than the Mamiya 35?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There is also the [a href=\"http://www.novoflex.de/english/html/adapters.htm]Novoflex adapter[/url] that along with the Mamiya 50mm/f4 shift can give you a solution that can be later used when you move up to MF.

[DCW]

I played with the cambo x2 yesterday at Calumet here in NYC, and its probably the best solution with that 28 digitar but it costs $4K US for the set up as pictured.  That's just too much since I will be moving up to MF Digital soon enough and would like to spend much less. I really don't need the full movements.  Shift is enough for now, I'm looking for something a bit better than the Canon 24TS which is OK, but not great.

rehnniar- what is the pentax 35af you are referring to, is it that much better than the Mamiya 35?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96217\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As mentioned above the best of the lot for 35mm shift lenses is the Zoerk adapter with the Pentax 35FA lens. As for wider choices the Olympus 24 PC outperforms the Canon 24TS but you'll
pay $2000 and up for a good copy and then you'll need a good adapter to fit the Canon. Somewhere recently I saw that Mamiya has a 28mm for the 645 system and or ZD camera  about to be released, whether this will be adaptable to the Canon bodies remain to be seen. The
Nikkors (35and 28) have some limitations, the Leica 28PC gets funky when shifted. The Contax 35PC is considered one of the best but is hard to find and again you'll pay $1500 and up for good samples. The Olympus 35PC can be had for 400-600 depending on condition and has a good reputation. Sooner or later that 4x5 collecting dust starts to look good again.

[stefan marquardt]

i have both (and used them on the 5D with the zörk) - the manual mamiya 35mm and the af pentax 35mm. the no doubt: the pentax is the way to go. the mamiya gets to soft when shifted. not the pentax. it is one of my sharpest lenses. i doubt that the 28mm schneider is any better.  the distortion on the pentax is low but not so symetrical. the mamiya has stronger distortion - but very symetrical (barrel) and therefore easy to correct. but i think, you can shift away with the pentax and in 90% of all images, you dont need to correct the distortion, since its hardly visible.
its such a good lens - I wish I could get it to fit my mamiya ZD.

stefan marquardt
architectural+interior photography

[bdkphoto]

Hold the phone! 

Can anyone confirm that the 28 Digitar is retrofocal enough to clear the mirror box of a 35mm SLR? (at infinity)

I understand that this lens has a reputation as the dog of the Digitar line.  Can anyone compare it's performance to say a Nikon 28PC or Canon TSE 24?

Thanks
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96232\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I only had a few minutes with the cambo x2 and the 28 digitar, but the 28 digitar was designed for use with the X2.  It's a copal 0 with no shutter, so it would only work on a bellows type system like the x2. I'm sure it would be much better that the 24ts or the nikkor 28pc.

I'm going to rent it and put it thougha test as soon as its available.

[bdkphoto]

i have both (and used them on the 5D with the zörk) - the manual mamiya 35mm and the af pentax 35mm. the no doubt: the pentax is the way to go. the mamiya gets to soft when shifted. not the pentax. it is one of my sharpest lenses. i doubt that the 28mm schneider is any better.  the distortion on the pentax is low but not so symetrical. the mamiya has stronger distortion - but very symetrical (barrel) and therefore easy to correct. but i think, you can shift away with the pentax and in 90% of all images, you dont need to correct the distortion, since its hardly visible.
its such a good lens - I wish I could get it to fit my mamiya ZD.

stefan marquardt
architectural+interior photography
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96246\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Stefan, now I need to find the pentax 35af, is it still a production lens or will I need to source it used?

[rainer_v]

i can confirm stephans comments 100%. the pentax is way better and so sharp that you can stitch with ff sensors the double fov, which means you have a 17mm lense whcih is sharp till the edges with a lot of resolution!
the olympus 24 is sharp if shifted, but it has a lot of CA,- i dont know any lense which is worther in this aspect. but its sharp and relative good corrected, two things which you cant say from the canon 24tse, the nikon 28pc ans also not from the schneider 28pc,- which is exactly the same optical construction than the 28digitar ( the 24+35 digitars are different here ). so i wouldnt expect much from the 28digitar in any case.

.

[stefan marquardt]

Thanks Stefan, now I need to find the pentax 35af, is it still a production lens or will I need to source it used?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96249\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

it´s still in production. allthough - if i remember correct - mamiya stoped delivery to some countries. i got mine from a german onlinshop for about 1.200 euro.

you dont see this lens on ebay very often (probably becouse its so good).

stefan

[Roberto Chaves]

I played with the cambo x2 yesterday at Calumet here in NYC, and its probably the best solution with that 28 digitar but it costs $4K US for the set up as pictured.  That's just too much since I will be moving up to MF Digital soon enough and would like to spend much less. I really don't need the full movements.  Shift is enough for now, I'm looking for something a bit better than the Canon 24TS which is OK, but not great.

rehnniar- what is the pentax 35af you are referring to, is it that much better than the Mamiya 35?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Same here, I've looked around for something better than the Canon TS 24.
I also tried the Cambo X2 pro on photo exhibition here in Stockholm/Sweden in december and it seem mechanically very nice.
I've previously read abit about the Zörk Pro Shift Adaptor [a href=\"http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/zork.shtml]http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/...ries/zork.shtml[/url]
But I need wideangle so that's not an option..
Then there is the adapters made by Horseman, however I heard that they are mechanically inferior to the Cambo.

I haven't researched Novoflex much, although it's a bit worrying that they've had the same SQL errors showing on their webpage for a long time + some of the product shots of their own products are horribly executed. One would think a company selling photogear would care!

I'm thinking of renting the Cambo X2-pro and try it out with the Schneider Apo Digitar 28  (this is the combination I'm looking to buy) connected to my Canon 1Dmk2.

If anyone has more information about the Cambo X2 pro or the Schneider 28 I'd be happy to hear about it!


/Roberto
www.tabi.se

[free1000]

Same here, I've looked around for something better than the Canon TS 24.
I also tried the Cambo X2 pro on photo exhibition here in Stockholm/Sweden in december and it seem mechanically very nice.
I've previously read abit about the Zörk Pro Shift Adaptor http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/...ries/zork.shtml
But I need wideangle so that's not an option..
Then there is the adapters made by Horseman, however I heard that they are mechanically inferior to the Cambo.

I haven't researched Novoflex much, although it's a bit worrying that they've had the same SQL errors showing on their webpage for a long time + some of the product shots of their own products are horribly executed. One would think a company selling photogear would care!

I'm thinking of renting the Cambo X2-pro and try it out with the Schneider Apo Digitar 28  (this is the combination I'm looking to buy) connected to my Canon 1Dmk2.

If anyone has more information about the Cambo X2 pro or the Schneider 28 I'd be happy to hear about it!
/Roberto
www.tabi.se
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Having made the jump from Canon to Leaf I have to tell you that the optics are the big limitation.

Personally I would think that even a 16Mp back with a really good optic like the Schneider 35XL would beat the Canon with its only so-so glass.

What have I tried?

1) The Mamiya 35 Manual with Cambo Ultima and the adapter for the 1DsII. So similar to the Zoerk idea. Not bad, but limited edge quality and limited movements.

2) The Schneider 28, again with the 1DsII and Ultima 35.  A terrible optic, worst distortion I've ever seen. Don't be suckered by this.

3) The 24 TS-E.  Personally I would rather use this than 1 or 2. Despite its limitations in resolution it makes up for it in ease of use

4) The Olympus 24 shift lens.  Despite looking immensely cool, this had about equivalent performance to the TSE-24.

All in all I spent about £3k trying to get the holy grail of a wide working on the 1DsII.

As they say - pay cheap pay twice.

Now I have experienced

5) Aptus 22 with Schneider 35XL. Very good indeed.

6) Aptus 75 with Schneider 35XL and 47XL both very good.

I have no doubt that its the optical quality of the schneider lens which is key and that an MF solution can be obtained for not much more than some of the Canon options.

eg: Phase or Aptus 16Mp back, possible factory recon. + Horseman wide camera + Schneider 35XL.  (There is an H1 back on Ebay, current bid £300.00, only for tethered use and only 10Mp, but I bet it would be a match for a 5D [a href=\"http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PHASE-ONE-H10-DIGITAL-BACK-TO-FIT-HASSLEBLAD-CM_W0QQitemZ130083828996QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15215QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PHASE-ONE-H10-DIGITA...QQcmdZViewItem)[/url]

... there comes a point where yes, you can get the camel to dance on its back legs... but it don't look pretty.

[Paul2660]

I have used the Mamiya 35mm F3.5 on both the 1ds and 1ds MKII.  I used it with the Zoerk PSA adatper for shifing.  On center excellent results with both the 1ds and 1ds MKII, so I wouldn't image the 5D would do any worse.   When shifted with the 1ds, the results were OK, but after I moved to the 1ds MKII, the shifts were too soft, so I switched to the Pentax 35mm FA F 3.5.  

The Mamiya was also very clear of CA even when shifted, something that the Pentax has a problem with.  

You will also need to make sure you are going to clear the mirror with whatever adatper you use.  Zoerk makes the T adatper and several other adatpers that will work including the PSA.  

Mamiya just announced their 28mm, which I am interested in but I haven't seen much on it yet.

Paul C.

[Morgan_Moore]

2) The Schneider 28, again with the 1DsII and Ultima 35. A terrible optic, worst distortion I've ever seen. Don't be suckered by this.
.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103524\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There are two 28s the old one which was a 35mm lense stick in a copal shutter for 11mp backs and the recently released $5k wonder lense - dont now ifr this can clear a 35mmDSLR mirorobox or not but they are very different

SMM

[marcwilson]

Mamiya just announced their 28mm, which I am interested in but I haven't seen much on it yet.

Paul C.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103573\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Assuming the new mamiya 28mm lens will be autofocus it will have no manual aperture ring so will not really be able to be used with a zoerk or other adapter on a 1ds, etc.

Marc

[Roberto Chaves]

There are two 28s the old one which was a 35mm lense stick in a copal shutter for 11mp backs and the recently released $5k wonder lense - dont now ifr this can clear a 35mmDSLR mirorobox or not but they are very different

SMM
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The 28 I will be trying is called Schneider Apo Digitar 28 and is a "digital optimized lens" supposedly to be very sharp.  It costs around 1800 Euro incl. 25% VAT here in Sweden.

Schneider claims their Digitar line are capable of a resolving power of 90-200 line pairs per millimeter.
See this PDF for more information: [a href=\"http://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/photo/Digitar_Manual.pdf]http://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/photo/Digitar_Manual.pdf[/url]

/Roberto
www.tabi.se

[rueyloon]

The 28 I will be trying is called Schneider Apo Digitar 28 and is a "digital optimized lens" supposedly to be very sharp.  It costs around 1800 Euro incl. 25% VAT here in Sweden.

Schneider claims their Digitar line are capable of a resolving power of 90-200 line pairs per millimeter.
See this PDF for more information: http://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/photo/Digitar_Manual.pdf

/Roberto
www.tabi.se
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103620\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Is it the one with the 60mm image circle ? and at f2.8 ? that lens is very distorted, unless you're at the end of your budget and this is a compromise I would suggest trying something else. I just paid a premium for this lens just to discover that the distortion is really really bad. A few others on this board has commented on it but I tot I should tried it for myself. Now I echo their views.

cheers