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Author Topic: Tonal shift in conversions  (Read 4202 times)

timhurst

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Tonal shift in conversions
« on: January 16, 2007, 06:27:41 AM »

Hello there,

I posted this over in the Adobe Labs forum but there have not been any takers

I'm experiencing a slight shift in colour and brightness when converting my files to TIFF or PSD as compared to the RAW preview displayed in Lightroom. The conversions are slightly lighter (less contrast in the darks) - from 2 to 4 RGB points in each channel. I don't experience this using the Adobe Camera Raw plugin which I understand is using the same RAW processing tech.

I'm running Windows XP SP2 with a fully calibrated monitor and PS is set up correctly for colour management. Monitor profile for NEC Spectraview 1990 was created with an i1 and Spectraview Profiler v4 with following settings:
Tonal response: L*
Type: 16 Bit LUT v4
Chromatic adaptation: CAT02
White point: native

Software:
PSCS2 with up to date Camera Raw
LR Beta 4.1

Any ideas or similar experiences? My guess is there is an issue with LRs use of my monitor profile or LR's internal colour space that is causing an incorrect preview in LR - these things are a step beyond my knowledge though.

I do remember having a similar experience with Capture One running off a laptop a couple of years ago: it wasn't hardware profiled though which I assumed was the problem.

The JPEG attached shows the relative difference I am seeing between the preview in LR and rendered TIFF in PS CS2.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 06:20:29 PM by timhurst »
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maxgruzen

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Tonal shift in conversions
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2007, 12:51:51 AM »

Quote
Hello there,

I posted this over in the Adobe Labs forum but there have not been any takers so I thought I should try me luck here!

I'm experiencing a slight shift in colour and brightness when converting my files to TIFF or PSD as compared to the RAW preview displayed in Lightroom. The conversions are slightly lighter (less contrast in the darks) - from 2 to 4 RGB points in each channel. I don't experience this using the Adobe Camera Raw plugin which I understand is using the same RAW processing tech.

I'm running Windows XP SP2 with a fully calibrated monitor and PS is set up correctly for colour management. Monitor profile for NEC Spectraview 1990 was created with an i1 and Spectraview Profiler v4 with following settings:
Tonal response: L*
Type: 16 Bit LUT v4
Chromatic adaptation: CAT02
White point: native

Software:
PSCS2 with up to date Camera Raw
LR Beta 4.1

Any ideas or similar experiences? My guess is there is an issue with LRs use of my monitor profile or LR's internal colour space that is causing an incorrect preview in LR - these things are a step beyond my knowledge though.

I do remember having a similar experience with Capture One running off a laptop a couple of years ago: it wasn't hardware profiled though which I assumed was the problem.

The JPEG attached shows the relative difference I am seeing between the preview in LR and rendered TIFF in PS CS2.

Cheers,

Tim
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tbonanno

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Tonal shift in conversions
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2007, 05:35:40 PM »

Hi Tim,

I had exactly the same problem.  After updating to the latest beta, I then selected "use embedded & sidecar previews" when importing a folder of files.  I don't know if this is what made the difference, but now the tonal shifts/contrast shifts that I was seeing earlier have gone away.  You might give it a try if you're not already using that option when importing files.

Tony
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timhurst

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Tonal shift in conversions
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2007, 11:00:53 AM »

Quote
Hi Tim,

I had exactly the same problem.  After updating to the latest beta, I then selected "use embedded & sidecar previews" when importing a folder of files.  I don't know if this is what made the difference, but now the tonal shifts/contrast shifts that I was seeing earlier have gone away.  You might give it a try if you're not already using that option when importing files.

Tony
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« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 06:19:13 PM by timhurst »
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tbonanno

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Tonal shift in conversions
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2007, 03:22:54 PM »

CALLING ANDREW RODNEY !

Tim,

I suspect ANDREW RODNEY has the answer to what you are experiencing.  I just read an article he wrote in the January issue of Professional Photographer magazine entitled "Color Management in Lightroom".  It was VERY interesting as it appears that Lightroom is really working in a variation of the ProPhoto RGB colorspace, and then converting the numbers when you export to sRGB or AdobeRGB.  There are only three export colorspace options in beta 4.1 LR; sRGB, Adobe RGB, and ProPhoto RGB.  

In the article in PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER, Andrew states that...

"Adobe recommends choosing ProPhoto RGB to preserve color details when exporting from Lightroom.  Since ProPhoto RGB has such a large gamut, Adobe recommends exporting the file in 16-bit color.  Lightroom automatically converts images exported from the Web module to sRGB."

Since Andrew is one of the moderators I believe on these forums, maybe someone can point him to your post Tim.

In the meantime, you might try exporting some of your files in ProPhoto RGB and see if it makes a difference.  By the way, I use the NEC 2190Uxi display with the built-in LUT and calibrate it using the Optix XR with the NEC Spectraview II software.  I haven't seen anything to suggest there any kind of issue between LR and the dispaly hardware/software.

Tony
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 03:24:31 PM by tbonanno »
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timhurst

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Tonal shift in conversions
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2007, 04:52:05 PM »

Tried to cover all my bases with the colour space issue. Used File --> Export to ProPhoto 16bit TIFF with no compression and tonal shift is still there compared to LR preview.

Compared the 16bit TIFF to an 8bit Adobe98 TIFF also and almost identical apart from the very saturated colours as would be expected.

Did the same thing using Edit in Photoshop command instead of Export with no difference.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 06:18:05 PM by timhurst »
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freddyfries

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Tonal shift in conversions
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2007, 09:07:14 AM »

Hi I have just found this thread after searching on the subject. I have just compared images from Lightroom with Photoshop and find the shift in color and tone to be pretty extreme. I have am shooting in Raw (RGB 1998) on a Canon EOS-D1s, working on a PC with XP Pro (S2) with a calibrated Lacie Electron 19 Blue III monitor. I am exporting as 16bit in ProPhoto RGB as that seems to be the best I can muster at present. I am doing all I can to ensure intergrity of color from the camera to the print stages, therefore I find this difference rather alarming. The pictures coming out of the camera and then working in Lightroom are great, then it seems to fall apart in Photoshop. Has anyone any futher advances on how to resolve this problem??

I have attached and image of the contrast in question
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timhurst

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Tonal shift in conversions
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2007, 04:23:59 AM »

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« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 06:14:06 PM by timhurst »
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macgyver

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Tonal shift in conversions
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2007, 02:24:06 AM »

I am having a same or similar issue; I get a signifgant red tinge when I go from LR to PS.
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freddyfries

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Tonal shift in conversions
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2007, 02:49:27 AM »

Has anyone purchased the new version?


I am very intrested to know if this problem is resolved. I presonally find the workflow in Lightroom  to be excellent, and would truly like to utilse this programm however the results that I am producing are not up to scratch? Has this been resolved in the official release?

I hope so!
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timhurst

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Tonal shift in conversions
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2007, 03:48:13 PM »

Quote
Has anyone purchased the new version?
I am very intrested to know if this problem is resolved. I presonally find the workflow in Lightroom  to be excellent, and would truly like to utilse this programm however the results that I am producing are not up to scratch? Has this been resolved in the official release?

I hope so!
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« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 06:12:45 PM by timhurst »
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