Getting an NEC Spectraview screen correct

[Rhossydd]

I’ve been using a NEC Spectraview 1980 here and have never managed to get it set up quite right, colours are generally very accurate, but the tonal accuracy for low luminance areas is poor with the monitor showing more shadow detail than is correct.
Is there any solution to this ? In the last few weeks there seem to have been many reports of similar problems, both here and on other photo related web forums.
Is it that LCD screens, even good ones like the Spectraviews, just can’t deliver good low luminance performance ? Do we just have to get used to this and work round it.

Background;
Running a fully colour managed workflow, soft proofing with PS CS2 & Qimage on Windows XP2.
Printers; Epson R1800, 2100 & SP3800. Prints from all three match very well using custom printer profiles and are close enough to the OEM profiles that are well respected, (eg Epson’s 3800  OEM profiles), to suggest they are accurately printing the image files. Furthermore, measuring test prints reveals that I’m getting accuracy levels of around deltaE values around 2 or less, from image data to measured print.
The NEC Spectraview 1980 is attached to a Matrox P650 via a DVI output.
Screen calibration has been done using a GMB Eye-One Pro, using, iMatch 3.6, Spectraview 3 & 4 and ProfileMaker Pro 5.05. The validation reports on Spectraview claim deltaE values below 2 for most colours and tones, but the worst values are always the darker shades.
Generally all screen profiles have delivered very similar results, but none quite hit the mark of being a match between screen and print with respect to low luminance tonal accuracy.

I’m aiming for 6500k colour temp, gamma of 2.2 and a luminance level of 120cdm.
I’ve tried using lower and higher screen luminances, but 120 seems about the most accurate and comfortable to work with so far.
This uses a brightness value of 52.8% and contrast level of 50% on the OSC for the Spectraview with auto brightness off. If auto brightness is switched on, tonal accuracy is often improved when viewing images full screen, but the brightness level of the screen keeps changing as different images are previewed or changed size on the screen, in other words distracting and unreliable.


Thanks in advance

Paul Holman

[eronald]

Matching luminosity is a pest, you are not the first to notice that. The specialist monitor profiling products (ColorEyes, Basiccolor) tend to be better than the Xrite/GMB suites, when it becomes necessary to  finesse issues  although I would certainly recommend Xrite to a beginner.

General pointers - I'd opt for a a fairly dim environment (no fluorescent bars near your screen) - diffuse daylight is ok, and my own preference is to profile to 5000K 1.8 gamma rather than native. I would profile in strongly subdued lighting.

Specific instructions - The i1 Pro is a good instrument for LCD screens in my experience. Try the ColorEyes demo (free), and build a matrix profile -*** not a LUT***.  I used the *old* BasicColor (identical to the present ColorEyes) to profile my monitors (with Lstar) - you might look at their new version too, but experiment with ColorEyes first .

I have had a *very* good success with Xrite (i1 Match) on CRT , but have needed the Coloreyes/Basiccolor combo for my own LCD screens, even for the Eizo CG 210. My print/screen match is now good even for monochrome, using Epson standard drivers and my own profiles.

Good luck.

Edmund

[Rhossydd]

Thanks for the reply Edmund.

Matching luminosity is a pest, you are not the first to notice that.

Rather disappointing that more people haven’t been able to help here given that.

I do profile in subdued lighting and I’ve tried working with a 5000K desktop, but it’s just too warm for me to work with, I just don’t see colour that way.

With respect to your specific instructions... I have now tried the ColorEyes demo, but
 the beta for the PC wouldn’t see my Eye-One, so that didn’t work.
BasicColor(4.1) did work, but gave poor profiles with grim banding in continuous tone areas.

So I’m back with profiles from ProfileMaker Pro or iMatch, neither of which seem to be hitting the standards I really want.
Maybe this luminosity issue is something we just have to live with and adjust our perception and expectations to, but I can't yet understand why it can't be calibrated/profilled out.

Ta

Paul

[eronald]

Call the ColorEyes guys eg. Jack Bingham (userid jackbingham on this forum) and get them to make the demo work for you (say I sent you if need be) they are helpful, and this is standard pre-sales support.

PMP and i1Match probably have the same engine so if one fails the other can be expected to have the same issues.

UPDATE: Possibly you may have an OS issue, eg. a lurking LUT loader - I suggest you ask a windows expert about this.

Edmund

Thanks for the reply Edmund.

Rather disappointing that more people haven’t been able to help here given that.

I do profile in subdued lighting and I’ve tried working with a 5000K desktop, but it’s just too warm for me to work with, I just don’t see colour that way.

With respect to your specific instructions... I have now tried the ColorEyes demo, but
 the beta for the PC wouldn’t see my Eye-One, so that didn’t work.
BasicColor(4.1) did work, but gave poor profiles with grim banding in continuous tone areas.

So I’m back with profiles from ProfileMaker Pro or iMatch, neither of which seem to be hitting the standards I really want.
Maybe this luminosity issue is something we just have to live with and adjust our perception and expectations to, but I can't yet understand why it can't be calibrated/profilled out.

Ta

Paul
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[jackbingham]

All you need to do is contact me for help about the eye One drivers.
jack@integrated-color.com. And I would build a 16 bit lut based profile using L* and the color temp you feel works best for you.


[/quote]

[Rhossydd]

All you need to do is contact me for help about the eye One drivers.

Thanks for the offer Jack, but.....
Spectraview, Basiccolor and coloreyes all seem to be versions of the same program and given the lack of success I've had with them;
(Spectraview 3 had a LUT loader that didn't work here, Basiccolor worked but gave poor profiles, Coloreyes demo couldn't see the spectro and it's installation routine doesn't work correctly either)
Now the Coloreyes demo has timed out and with such a poor track record so far, I just can't spend huge amounts of time trying to get it working on the off chance it might perform better than the software I've already spend thousands on.

Paul

[eronald]

Paul, in the *professional* display profiling community, there are only 3 companies left really, Xrite who are the HUGE gorilla and do everything pretty well, Basiccolor and ColorEyes who survive on their specialist skills.

And then there are the display guys, like NEC and Eizo, who should be prepared to do tech support for their bundled software.

And a few hundred consultants like me.

Which is why I suggest you either hire a local consultant, or contact Xrite or the monitor tech support, or you play nice with Jack, who is bending over backwards, and let him help you with his huge experience. I am bowing out of this conversation as I don't do free tech support.

Good luck.

Edmund

Thanks for the offer Jack, but.....
Spectraview, Basiccolor and coloreyes all seem to be versions of the same program and given the lack of success I've had with them;
(Spectraview 3 had a LUT loader that didn't work here, Basiccolor worked but gave poor profiles, Coloreyes demo couldn't see the spectro and it's installation routine doesn't work correctly either)
Now the Coloreyes demo has timed out and with such a poor track record so far, I just can't spend huge amounts of time trying to get it working on the off chance it might perform better than the software I've already spend thousands on.

Paul
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[Eric Myrvaagnes]

I am bowing out of this conversation as I don't do free tech support.

Good luck.

Edmund
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Oops! I think you did just do free tech support.  

[Rhossydd]

Oops! I think you did just do free tech support.   

I don't think so.