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Author Topic: Good and bad web gallery designs  (Read 80593 times)

Chris_Brown

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« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2007, 12:03:09 pm »

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Interesting.. It took me about 2 sec to load the site from where I am. I experience the same thing with my new site. It takes me about 20 sec to load the site, others tell me it takes 2 sec and no problems. It seems the choise of hosting service, the location of the server ++ are all important factors ?[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93647\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is one of the reasons I don't like Flash-- loading times. Is it the server? Is it the client/browser? Is it an old plug-in? Do I need the new version of Flash Player? This is where PHP (hosted by a conscientious hosting site) makes these questions moot.

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I know nothing about html so i've used iWeb on my Mac (don't think that has been mentioned here) which is very easy for web site design, but has lousy slide show capability so I've been thinking of removing the slide show feature altogether and just having folks click on individual images.  But for those who know nothing about web design and have a mac, iWeb is a reasonable way to go.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93649\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I've experienced slow loading times with iWeb sites myself. A friend of mine who writes code used it briefly but didn't like the page structure. Still, it beats anything else when you don't know what to use.
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Chris_T

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« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2007, 12:04:35 pm »

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Interesting.. It took me about 2 sec to load the site from where I am.

I experience the same thing with my new site. It takes me about 20 sec to load the site, others tell me it takes 2 sec and no problems..

It seems the choise of hosting service, the location of the server ++ are all important factors ?

Lasse
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Comments on your site:

[a href=\"http://www.morkhagen.net/]http://www.morkhagen.net/[/url]

A nice simple layout, but I find the green background distracting. The Folk gallery takes a while to load (flash?), but the first enlargement is displayed while the thumbnails load. The model is attractive enough to keep me waiting for the loading to complete. (A hint for those who use flash?) I like the Image Info, but can it be positioned so that it does not cover up the image? Is there any reason why the thumbnails are on the right instead of the left? The bottom thumbnail is chopped off. A better design would be to work around this. With a large gallery, scrolling down a long vertical list of thumbnails can be irritating.
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Chris_Brown

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« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2007, 12:09:47 pm »

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Comments on your site... A better design would be to work around this. With a large gallery, scrolling down a long vertical list of thumbnails can be irritating.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93659\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Chris_T, looks like you'll need to become a code geek if you want to design your own site.
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djgarcia

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« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2007, 02:36:01 pm »

My site is home-made, and you can have fun ripping it apart  ... Galleries are in the Beauty section.
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brianchapman

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« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2007, 03:35:10 pm »

Thanks Chris!

The enter page is probably not necessary.  I have debated about what should be the entry page - I wanted the entry page to be images of some sort but I didn't want users to start at the portfolio page because it has a different look and feel from the rest of the site.  I decided I'd go with the blog because I figured that would be the page updated most frequently (although not very frequently apparently) but other than that it was a mostly arbitrary decision.  

Any font/rollover color differences in the main site are not intended...I will take a look.  I think consistency is important but I have a lot of extras in my css which has caused some problems finding things ;-)  Thanks for pointing it out.

The space between the bottom of the page content and the footer (links, etc) is extremely difficult to get right - I spent probably two days trying to get it right...to no avail obviously.  You're right though, the intent was for them to be just below the content if it was larger than a page or if it was smaller than the full window I wanted it sitting at the bottom to fill the page but not require vertical scrolling.  

The gallery size is intentional because I didn't want to handle a large gallery!!  I think I would have to make the thumbnails smaller to keep it well contained.  I used larger thumbnails because I didn't want images so small that they were useless as far as a preview is concerned.  Ultimately I may go with the no thumbnail approach like Autoviewer but there again keeping the gallery size in check is important.  

The image overlay is javascript.  There's a library called "lightbox" and I integrated that as part of the gallery management.  I didn't attempt to change anything within the library so the behavior is default.  

One more thing regarding sizing, etc, I saw a question earlier about it...I use some javascript to check the resolution of the users browser and then load one of two different style sheets depending on whether it is greater or less than 1024x768.  While it's not perfect, it does give me some flexibility for those of us who like to use 1280+ so I can size parts of the page differently.  It doesn't do anything to the thumbnail size (yet...) but it keeps the overall site size appropriate for the browser window.  I'll be glad to share if someone is interested.

Thanks again for taking the time to comment on the site!  
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For now, I'll settle for criticising others' sites.
You're doing a great job!

Brian
http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com

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Finally a site by a pro, and what a difference. Like the simple layout, and especially the large font size and spacing between lines. However, just to make you nervous, here are some comments:

Is the Enter page necessary? The About page is lacking in content. Perhaps beefing it up can be your home page and get rid of the Enter page.

The entry page to your site is your blog. Is this what you want? It loads slow, but the rotating flash is cute. The News menu botton can be more accurately be replaced with Blog. That's what it really is!

An exception to the overall good text legibility is the menu button names on the Portfolio page. The text color is way too faint for my eyes (the gallery titles' color on the same page is acceptable). Like the buttons' hover color change. But the color change is different from the blog page. Intended? Why?

The gallery thumbnail page has only eight images. Works fine for a small gallery. But how would you handle a large gallery? Unlike other sites I mentioned earlier, your gallery button page has links to other pages. Great. There is a large horizontal space between the thumbnails and the Recent News, etc. at the bottom. I think that these links at the bottom can either be part of your blog or implemented as button(s) at the top navigation menu. It makes navigation more obvious. Without the space and these links, you can get rid of the need of vertical scrolling on most monitors.

Displaying an enlargement as an overlay on top of a dimmed thumbnail page is an interesting idea. Is it done with flash? The Next/Previous buttons in the enlargement are hidden and need mousing around to find. I missed them the first time. Clicking on a blank space (I did it by mistake) closes the enlargement window. Is it intended? Is it possible to position the enlargement so that is does not cover up any thumbnails? That way, you will have something like the two example sites I posted earlier.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93653\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 03:36:01 pm by brianchapman »
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plugsnpixels

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« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2007, 08:24:44 pm »

Speaking of Flash, since my last post I found this music-related site that shows how cool Flash can be when done well! Move your mouse over the stickers (left and right). After you're done enjoying that, click on any sticker. This beats shapes flying around and text spinning, dropping and zooming into place.
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Chris_Brown

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« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2007, 09:34:43 am »

One other thing, I always "skip intro" when given the choice. They're never worth waiting for. Perhaps it's a way for the site programmer to make a little extra ca$h.
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Chris_T

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« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2007, 10:00:30 am »

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I've been following this discussion with interest as i have been wondering if I should try using Flash on my site (ie: the "way of the future" in sophisticated web design) but I'm hearing that most people don't like flash and personally I don't either.  I know nothing about html so i've used iWeb on my Mac (don't think that has been mentioned here) which is very easy for web site design, but has lousy slide show capability so I've been thinking of removing the slide show feature altogether and just having folks click on individual images.  But for those who know nothing about web design and have a mac, iWeb is a reasonable way to go. eleanor
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Before proceeding any further, see my comments about your current site. There are numerous "easy" apps and templates for web design. While they let you come up with a site in minutes, you never know what is under the hood, nor would you know what your viewers' experiences are.

I'll post a couple of book recommendations on this topic later.

Comments on your site:

[a href=\"http://www.eleanorbrown.com/]http://www.eleanorbrown.com/[/url]

The home page takes forever to load (not flash and no large image, so why?). During the loading, the Menu buttons have three colors, one too many. It is white when page is displayed, as in Welcome. The rest are so lack of contrast against their background that they are almost illegible. When hovering on one of them, the text and background become the same, i.e. NO text! This makes it difficult for someone who wants to skip the home page during loading and access another page. After loading, the button colors are fine.

The About Me page takes even longer, and I didn't wait for it to complete.

On the Portfolio page, some gallery titles (Main Coast, Wine, etc.) are spaced too close too the bottom of the images. They don't line up with the other gallery titles.

I tried to open a gallery but had to punt after minutes. Too bad, I really would like to see some of your images.
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Chris_T

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« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2007, 10:07:11 am »

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My site is home-made, and you can have fun ripping it apart  ... Galleries are in the Beauty section.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You asked for it, and here are my comments on your site:

[a href=\"http://improbablystructuredlayers.net/]http://improbablystructuredlayers.net/[/url]

The Beauty gallery took a long time to load and I think I know why. The image is 162kb at 300dpi. For web display, you don't need more than 100dpi. Smaller file means faster loading. If someone should steal your image, they can't make a large and high quality print. That is one nice shot though. Wish I have patience to see more.

The overall design can be better in many regards, especially with navigation. Check my book recommendations in a later post.
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Chris_T

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« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2007, 10:16:30 am »

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Chris_T, looks like you'll need to become a code geek if you want to design your own site.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As a matter of fact, I did try to learn what I can. I started out with many html and css books, and was about to dive in. Thank god I didn't. After reading the following two books, I have a completely different view about site design. It is a heck of lot more than just HOW to code. It is more about WHAT to code! My scrutiny of others' sites are learned from these books, combined with my biased preferences.

Don't Make Me Think by Steve Krug
[a href=\"http://www.managementconsultingnews.com/interviews/krug_interview.php]http://www.managementconsultingnews.com/in...g_interview.php[/url]

Web Design On a Shoestring by Carrie Bickner
http://www.roguelibrarian.com/shoestring/

Both are skinny books, and worth their weight in gold for every web designer, pro or amateur.
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Chris_T

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« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2007, 10:45:42 am »

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Thanks Chris!

I appreciate your appreciation. <g> It is not often that cirticisms are well received. I'm just grateful that my comments have not started any flame wars, so far.

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The enter page is probably not necessary.  I have debated about what should be the entry page - I wanted the entry page to be images of some sort but I didn't want users to start at the portfolio page because it has a different look and feel from the rest of the site.  I decided I'd go with the blog because I figured that would be the page updated most frequently (although not very frequently apparently) but other than that it was a mostly arbitrary decision. 

Yes, a home page is extremely important in many regards and should be given special attention. For this reason, a home page's layout can be different from the other pages. In many cases, an Enter page, on the other hand, is nothing more than an extra click.

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Any font/rollover color differences in the main site are not intended...I will take a look.  I think consistency is important but I have a lot of extras in my css which has caused some problems finding things ;-)  Thanks for pointing it out.

Consistency is very important. If there is inconsistency, a viewer (like me) would wonder does the inconsistency mean something.

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The space between the bottom of the page content and the footer (links, etc) is extremely difficult to get right - I spent probably two days trying to get it right...to no avail obviously.  You're right though, the intent was for them to be just below the content if it was larger than a page or if it was smaller than the full window I wanted it sitting at the bottom to fill the page but not require vertical scrolling. 

I am quite surprised that you find it difficult to control the space size. From my reading, if the page is laid out in css blocks, controlling the spacing within each block or between blocks should not be that big a deal. To really minimize the vertical scrolling on this page, why not get rid of these bottom links and incorporate them as menu buttons at the top? That way, the navigation is centralized. Too birds with one stone.

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The gallery size is intentional because I didn't want to handle a large gallery!!  I think I would have to make the thumbnails smaller to keep it well contained.  I used larger thumbnails because I didn't want images so small that they were useless as far as a preview is concerned.  Ultimately I may go with the no thumbnail approach like Autoviewer but there again keeping the gallery size in check is important. 

As you may have noticed in my critiques on different sites, I am trying to solve this problem of how to manage and navigate a LARGE gallery with many thumbnails and displaying an enlargement on a single page. The thumbnail size, the number of thumbnails, how many to displayon a page, how to navigate between them, etc. all come into play. Size does matter, when it comes to galleries.

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The image overlay is javascript.  There's a library called "lightbox" and I integrated that as part of the gallery management.  I didn't attempt to change anything within the library so the behavior is default. 

One more thing regarding sizing, etc, I saw a question earlier about it...I use some javascript to check the resolution of the users browser and then load one of two different style sheets depending on whether it is greater or less than 1024x768.  While it's not perfect, it does give me some flexibility for those of us who like to use 1280+ so I can size parts of the page differently.  It doesn't do anything to the thumbnail size (yet...) but it keeps the overall site size appropriate for the browser window.  I'll be glad to share if someone is interested.

How to deal with different monitor/widow sizes and resolutions at the viewers' end is an important consideration. I would like to know how this approach work, and what are the pros and cons. Please keep us updated on your findings.

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Thanks again for taking the time to comment on the site! 

You're doing a great job!

You are more than welcome, and thanks for the civility.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 11:19:22 am by Chris_T »
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eleanorbrown

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« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2007, 10:48:26 am »

Hi chris and thanks for taking the time to comment on what you saw from your computer on my site.  Now I'm really preplexed because except for the labels being out of line on the portfolio page, i see none of what you are describing.  right now i'm looking at it from my old (very old and slow) apple Powerbook laptop.  I cleared the Safari cache and histories so everything should load from the get go, not being stored in the cache.  Home page took 3 seconds to load and all type is very readable (white against dark gray background) and there is no fading.  also i see only one color in the menu buttons (white).  the portfolio page took about 8 seconds to load and the about me, about the same time.  I opened the trees portfolio page (one of the larger) and it took about 13 seconds to load.  what i'm wondering is that could this be a difference in mac and pc using this apple made site?? (are you on a pc?).  also my internet connection is cable, reasonably fast.  I definitely would expect dial up to have slow loading with my site.  any ideas about the difference in your experiences and mine?  thanks again for taking the time to report your findings!! eleanor

The home page takes forever to load (not flash and no large image, so why?). During the loading, the Menu buttons have three colors, one too many. It is white when page is displayed, as in Welcome. The rest are so lack of contrast against their background that they are almost illegible. When hovering on one of them, the text and background become the same, i.e. NO text! This makes it difficult for someone who wants to skip the home page during loading and access another page. After loading, the button colors are fine.

The About Me page takes even longer, and I didn't wait for it to complete.

On the Portfolio page, some gallery titles (Main Coast, Wine, etc.) are spaced too close too the bottom of the images. They don't line up with the other gallery titles.

I tried to open a gallery but had to punt after minutes. Too bad, I really would like to see some of your images.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93865\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]
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Chris_T

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« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2007, 11:46:31 am »

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Hi chris and thanks for taking the time to comment on what you saw from your computer on my site.  Now I'm really preplexed because except for the labels being out of line on the portfolio page, i see none of what you are describing.  right now i'm looking at it from my old (very old and slow) apple Powerbook laptop.  I cleared the Safari cache and histories so everything should load from the get go, not being stored in the cache.  Home page took 3 seconds to load and all type is very readable (white against dark gray background) and there is no fading.  also i see only one color in the menu buttons (white).  the portfolio page took about 8 seconds to load and the about me, about the same time.  I opened the trees portfolio page (one of the larger) and it took about 13 seconds to load.  what i'm wondering is that could this be a difference in mac and pc using this apple made site?? (are you on a pc?).  also my internet connection is cable, reasonably fast.  I definitely would expect dial up to have slow loading with my site.  any ideas about the difference in your experiences and mine?  thanks again for taking the time to report your findings!! eleanor

My comment about the menu buttons' colors is ONLY DURING the loading. Once loaded, the colors are fine. But often during a slow loading of a page, I like the option of clicking on a link and skip to another page. Not a big deal, but something worth looking into.

I'm on a PC and dial up. Upon further investigation, I think I know why the loading is so slow: you have HUGE image files.

Initially I tried to right click and save your home page image to see how big it is. But right clicking only got me a transparent file. Nice try, but it won't prevent someone who wants to work harder to "steal" your images. I saved the whole web page, and realized that that image is a whopping 798kb, at 24bits!!! For web images, you only need 8bit and no more than 100dpi. Read the Shoestring book and you will find out more.

Instead of preventing saving an image with right clicking (silly), post small low resolution images that would still look good on a site. Not only will the loading speed up, a thief will not be able to print a stolen image at high resolution and at a large size. Check out sites of famous photogs (John Shaw, e.g.) and see how they do it. Look at the detail properties of an image to see the pixel size (key), dpi, and bit depth.

One more time, read those two books. You will learn a lot more.
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Chris_Brown

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« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2007, 12:34:51 pm »

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I'm on a PC and dial up. Upon further investigation, I think I know why the loading is so slow: you have HUGE image files.
I'd say they're loading slow because you're on dial up.  

I don't know what the "norm" is nowdays, dial-up, DSL, cable, ISDN. But in my small business, more than half of my work is delivered on-line. Connection speed is very important for my biz. I zip large files and FTP 'em to a secure directory on my site. The week before Christmas I uploaded about 700MB (almost 1GB uncompressed) which was then dowloaded to both Japan and England within the hour. I couldn't have made the deadline without a fast connection.

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One more time, read those two books. You will learn a lot more.
I bought a CSS and PHP book with the hope that I'd simply program my own site because I couldn't find a gallery I liked. Who was I kidding?  

The books look good though. Thanks for the link.
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eleanorbrown

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« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2007, 01:42:08 pm »

Chris I will definitely check in to the file size on the home page as that one may have been dragged on in a hurry from my computer desktop without running through Photoshop's "save for web" feature, which I do with almost all the images on the site.  

I save in srgb/8bit/72dpi/648 pixels on the long side (for the most part) and then "save for web" at "high" quality through Photoshop. While this does result in files that a larger than they could be, I have primarily designed the web site for faster connections because this gives me better quality in these small jpgs as I do so many images that have very fine detail that goes to mush if I compress too much.

About stealiing of my images I have taken the philosophy that I'm not going to get "bent out of shape" about it if it happens....life is too short and already too complex for me to worry about someone making a print from an 800k image file they took off my site.  While it wouldn't exactly please me, I know what kind of print I can make from that sized file and it "ain't much".  

I will definitely look into checking some of the file sizes tho with consideration of faster load in mind! eleanor
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Gordon Buck

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« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2007, 01:42:46 pm »

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...  Now I'm really preplexed because except for the labels being out of line on the portfolio page, i see none of what you are describing.  ...

Nice website, Eleanor, and good photography as well.  From the portfolio page, other pages seem to take 10 to 15 seconds before completely displaying.  A bit of patience is required for that initial display and some people may not hang around that long.  

Until a page is completely loaded, many of the text/labels are displayed with white letters on a light cyan background.  This changes after the page is completely loaded.

I'm on a PC with cable modem connection.  I did get a message that Apple Quicktime was needed when I tried to look at "Dad's Workshop" page.
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eleanorbrown

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« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2007, 02:34:17 pm »

Hmmm, quicktime needed to the workshop page. now I'm stumped.  unless i'ts to play the optional selection of music, I don't know.!! Didn't think one needed quicktime to play music.  will look into this, thanks, Eleanor



  I did get a message that Apple Quicktime was needed when I tried to look at "Dad's Workshop" page.
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« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2007, 04:10:51 pm »

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Web Design On a Shoestring by Carrie Bickner
http://www.roguelibrarian.com/shoestring/[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93870\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't like the fact that a couple of links on this site end in a 404 error. Looks like she needs to read her own book.
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« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2007, 04:12:13 pm »

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You asked for it, and here are my comments on your site:

http://improbablystructuredlayers.net/

The Beauty gallery took a long time to load and I think I know why. The image is 162kb at 300dpi. For web display, you don't need more than 100dpi. Smaller file means faster loading. If someone should steal your image, they can't make a large and high quality print. That is one nice shot though. Wish I have patience to see more.

The overall design can be better in many regards, especially with navigation. Check my book recommendations in a later post.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93866\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for the comments and the book recommendation, Chris. I do have to say dial-up support is not high on my list of priorities though I do try to not be inefficient. Time to upgrade that line!

I do tend to use big JPEG files for quality, but that's probably more wishful than actual - I need to revisit that aspect. It's depressing when one can see the 13"x19" 17MPixel fine-art print next to the anemic 1024x768 web image ...

Any navigational improvement tips will be appreciated, as I'm contemplating a redesign soon.

Happy New Year!
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djgarcia

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« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2007, 04:27:57 pm »

Eleanor, love the beautiful images! I like the basic layout, but I'm also getting the Quicktime installation prompt. You should probably use something more generic like MP3s :-).
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