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Author Topic: Been pondering about camera reviews...  (Read 6257 times)

JJP

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« on: December 26, 2006, 07:28:23 pm »

Got the week off, but it's been to cold the last couple days to do some photography and so, this thread:
Since there's so much at stake...what Phil, Michael and others post on public/free for all websites could at best or worst, make or brake a manufacturer.  It could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
No one person should have that kind of "power"  IMO.
What I propose is that website owners do one of two things:
1.  Offer camera reviews on dvd's for a premium
                      -------OR-------
2.  Discontinue camera reviews

Camera reviews are most useful to serious prospective buyers....the rest need not apply

jj
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JJ

dturina

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2006, 05:26:39 am »

Reviews don't make or break cameras. Image quality and handling do. Reviews just provide basic information to the prospective buyers who can thus get a general idea about the camera, and decide whether they can live with its quirks or not. I bought Olympus E1 against most reviewers' recommendations, because its mixture of good and bad sides fit my style of photography. Reviews can inform you, they can't decide for you, and aren't supposed to.

Quote
Got the week off, but it's been to cold the last couple days to do some photography and so, this thread:
Since there's so much at stake...what Phil, Michael and others post on public/free for all websites could at best or worst, make or brake a manufacturer.  It could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
No one person should have that kind of "power"  IMO.
What I propose is that website owners do one of two things:
1.  Offer camera reviews on dvd's for a premium
                      -------OR-------
2.  Discontinue camera reviews

Camera reviews are most useful to serious prospective buyers....the rest need not apply

jj
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92428\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Danijel

jani

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2006, 06:28:05 am »

Quote
Got the week off, but it's been to cold the last couple days to do some photography and so, this thread:
Since there's so much at stake...what Phil, Michael and others post on public/free for all websites could at best or worst, make or brake a manufacturer.  It could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
No one person should have that kind of "power"  IMO.
Fortunately, no one person has that kind of "power".

It takes more than one damning review to "kill" a camera or manufacturer.

As for your suggestions, you seem to completely ignore a few rather important points:

Other people also post their own "reviews" of cameras and other equipment on their own websites. These "reviews" are not very well known, because sites like LL, DPReview, Steve's Digicams, Digital Outback Photo, Fred Miranda, CNet etc. get most of the attention.

So if we assume that you somehow managed to convince these serious and thorough testers to pull back, either to a paid subscription service or to just stop reviewing, you'd still be left with Joe Average's "reviews".

I don't want that. I want those more thorough reviews, and I think it's better for the average buyer that they get the publicity rather than those of Joe Average.
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michael

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2006, 09:54:39 am »

I think we should then also ban movie reviews, book reviews and the like.

Hell, let's just let people fend for themselves.  

Michael
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JJP

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2006, 10:55:58 am »

Quote
Other people also post their own "reviews" of cameras and other equipment on their own websites.

Yes there are other(s) who do their own "reviews", but I believe that reviews from LL, DPR etc...carry much more weight (weight as in "influencial power" )
And so, they (the reviews) should not be taken lightly.  When a new camera goes into production, people hold their breath (metaphor) until they (LL, DPR, RG etc....) do the review the air is filled with anticipation.  
Personally, I believe that a bad review can destroy a manufacturer's best efforts....words are more powerful than hydrogen bombs.
Although I don't have the skills to review a camera, even if i did, I would not want that responsibility...my conscience would not allow me too...knowing that my words could destroy a manufacturer's (and their employees) best efforts.
Quote
Hell, let's just let people fend for themselves.
I'm not suggesting that at all...just saying that the reviewer's words are powerful while at the same time on the other scale, can be burdensome.
jj
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JJ

Rob C

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2006, 11:22:27 am »

JJP

Don't let this get you down: you just need a holiday, preferably somewhere sunny; you'll then discover that the woes of the camera/film/white goods/fashion/car industries are not yours at all and that all those mothers are a damn sight stronger than you are.

Have a relaxed new year.

Rob C

paulbk

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2006, 09:00:54 pm »

re: JJP, “Discontinue camera reviews”

Ridiculous for obvious reasons. Worse, you believe that buyers will accept a bad review UN-questioned, while discounting competing reviews and millions of dollars worth of advertising in thousands of media outlets. Boggles.

Easy access to product reviews by a wide range of users make the internet valuable AND manufacturers accountable. In the end, camera companies will live or die by the performance of their products. Would you have it otherwise?

p
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New England, USA

Jonathan Wienke

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2006, 12:47:09 pm »

What a ridiculous proposal. The reason the "major review sites" are as popular as they are is because they have a proven track record of providing useful, reasonably unbiased information about cameras to the public. When Michael or Phil or Steve criticise a camera's shortcomings, there is generally a legitimate basis for doing so, and the same is true when they praise a camera. This gives the public the basis for making a more informed buying decision, reducing the likelihood of buying something and being unhappy with it. If a particular camera ias not appropriate for the needs of a particular buyer, it is better for the buyer to choose another camera than to mistakenly buy the wrong camera and be unhappy with it and the manufacturer. The only "losers" currently are manufacturers who make a defective camera model, or fail to match the features of their cameras to the needs/wants of the intended market segment (the G7 comes to mind here). Reviewers are a good thing; the more the merrier, I say. Find a few whose criteria for review match what is important to you, and save yourself time, hassle, and money buying stuff you aren't happy with.

I like DPReview for their in-depth technical analysis, and Michael for his perspective on things like ergononics (Can I operate this camera in cold weather while wearing gloves?), performance under field conditions, and the less-tangible aspects of use. Between them, I've been happier with the $20K+ I've spent on photo gear than I would have been otherwise.
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dbell

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2006, 03:42:59 pm »

I guarantee that the camera vendors aren't going to stop advertising.  If  interested third-parties stop writing reviews, we'll be left with nothing but ad copy.

Reviewers, for all their human frailty, offer something important to the community: an OPINION based on something other than their own financial interests. It's up to the readers to use their own judgement about what to buy and whose opinions to pay attention to.  Personally, I'd much rather hear what Michael (or Mike Johnston or Phil Askey or Alain Briot or Pete Myers) thinks of something than what Canon's ad agency  or PR firm wants me to hear.

Information is meaningless without context. It's up to each of us to make our own decisions about what equipment or processes best fit OUR OWN requirements. Reviews by non-vendors serve a useful role, but they are just part of a larger picture.


--
Daniel Bell
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BernardLanguillier

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2006, 05:04:05 pm »

Quote
What I propose is that website owners do one of two things:
1.  Offer camera reviews on dvd's for a premium
                      -------OR-------
2.  Discontinue camera reviews
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92428\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The key aspect is not only how good a review a product gets, but more when/whether it is reviewed or not.

Phil reviewing the Nikon D40 3 weeks before X-Mas does probably generate many more sales than a review on Jan 10th,

All in all, you are just saying that media has power AND is difficult to control. That is nothing new. I agree with you that - as most things in this World - there is some deeply unsettling dimension to this, but it is now way too late...

I recommend moving over to a remote part of the Andes where the sound of the wind will only depend on your own ears.

Cheers,
Bernard

feppe

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2006, 06:10:58 pm »

At first I thought this was a troll, but since you have quite a few posts I'll give this the benefit of a doubt and reply with this: There is a drive by certain people to eradicate performance evaluation at schools since it _might_ cause stress in kids. I didn't know cameras had feelings. Or did I miss the unveiling of Canon 30HAL?

I mean seriously, are you honestly saying consumers should not be informed? That we should put our time and money into testing and buying 5+ different models ourselves every time we invest in a gadget? Or even more outrageously, that we should just trust marketing material manufacturers put out?

And when it comes to responsibility and conscience not allowing you to post reviews: I'm sure Mr Reichmann and other prominent reviewers are fully aware of how powerful they are - that's partly why they have reached their prominence as they take their reviews seriously.

Besides, in the real world people don't get paid for trying, they get paid for producing results. Business world ain't kindergarten.

Thinking of this, now I'm convinced that you're trolling.

DarkPenguin

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2006, 06:36:40 pm »

But think of it.  What if those stress free kids buy a new camera that then receives a negative review?  They'll be upset.  They'll encounter stress for the first time in their lives.  They won't be prepared and will probably have an adverse reaction and die.

Won't somebody please think of the children?
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erusan

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2006, 08:25:19 pm »

There exists testing and comparison of consumer products besides cameras and it has for a long time.  At my house, we have a frying pan, a bread baking machine and a car based on these tests, and I used to have a small R/C car that was tested to be the best value and I enjoyed it very much.

What is the point here? I believe that ignorant people with too much web surfing time and little sense of reality are the problem (not you, but people who blindly take for real what is said to them, regardless of the medium the message is conveyed through).

Besides, it couldn't possibly be that "Michael, Phil and the others" all work for the same cause? I think they level out their individual biases nicely  


Too much pondering, you've said it already. Perhaps a calendar with spring photographs can help out?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2006, 08:26:17 pm by erusan »
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erusan
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Ed Dubois

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Been pondering about camera reviews...
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2007, 01:30:54 am »

As one who reads the reviews and buys equipment, I also reserve the right to make up my own mind. Since I've never met Michael or Phil or any of the other reviewers (at least to the best of my knowledge) I'm happy to read their opinions and observations and see if they match mine. With modern DSLRs having a vast number of features and potential foibles I find these insights helpful.

The fact that some reviewers don't like certain products doesn't change my buying decisions unless I too find the 'problems' they've identified are problems for me too. I should also add I've not bought cameras that reviewers have raved about because they didn't suit me for some reason.

So let the reviews continue! I think they serve a useful purpose when I'm buying and also when the weather's bad and I just want to read about potential toys
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