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Author Topic: Sinar and Leaf don't do Windows  (Read 12778 times)

Phil Boorman

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Sinar and Leaf don't do Windows
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2006, 03:37:04 pm »

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Which Fujitsu do you have? I get around 3~4 hours with my Gateway.
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Hi Kumar,

It's a Fujitsu Lifebook P7010 with RAM upgraded to 1Gb and hard drive to 100Gb. Shot today all tethered on battery pretty much non stop for 4 hours using C1 Pro. Battery was down to about 15% at the end of the shoot. Had Sony Vaio TR1MP before this which was pretty good but this is just a bit more solid.

I'm not holding my breath for Leaf PC support - I was told by rep that PC version would almost certainly be available within 6 months at demo......last February! It doesn't give me a sense of security when you're thinking of spending $20000+.

Phil
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free1000

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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2006, 09:52:28 am »

I'm intrigued by people who feel that LC generates better output than ACR and Lightroom. I don't find that to be the case at all.  Certainly where it comes to Lightroom, I seem to get better results than with any other converter. This is partly due to the curve controls (which are in the new ACR Beta as well) but mainly due to the way LC handles sharpening and noise reduction. I just don't like the look of the files so much.
 
Raw developer probably delivers the best results in the area of sharpening as it has a wider variety of algorithms and tuning parameters. Its B&W conversions are very good, but Lightroom gives it a run for its money. Its almost worth getting a Mac just to have access for Raw Developer as it does a few things particularly well... don't like the UI much though personally.
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James Russell

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Sinar and Leaf don't do Windows
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2006, 10:18:32 am »

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I'm intrigued by people who feel that LC generates better output than ACR and Lightroom. I don't find that to be the case at all.  Certainly where it comes to Lightroom, I seem to get better results than with any other converter. This is partly due to the curve controls (which are in the new ACR Beta as well) but mainly due to the way LC handles sharpening and noise reduction. I just don't like the look of the files so much.
 
Raw developer probably delivers the best results in the area of sharpening as it has a wider variety of algorithms and tuning parameters. Its B&W conversions are very good, but Lightroom gives it a run for its money. Its almost worth getting a Mac just to have access for Raw Developer as it does a few things particularly well... don't like the UI much though personally.
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For the A-22 files LC10 is better at high iso than the other convertors as it works the noise in shadows a little better, with RD and lightroom a close second.  PSCS is the noisiest of the group.  Leaf V-8 doesn't allow for high iso.

PSCS also produces a "brighter" file than lc10 by nearly a 1/2 stop.

The only stable and fast way to batch Leaf files is in CS1 and CS2, with Raw Developer a close third.  The only issue I have with RD is the thumbnails do not reflect changes made to the file so keeping up on a large job is difffiuclt.

For detail RD pulls the most and holds the best highights of any of the convertors for the Leaf and the P-30 files.

Lightroom I like but it's still buggy and disconnected.  Setting corections and batching in Lightroom is about twice to three times the effort of C-1 or pscs.

For the Phase P-30 files there is a bug in Lightroom that crops part of the horizontal frame and if you adjust a P-30 file in C-1 then later try to use it in Lightroom it won't work as you just get a pink screen.

Of course  we all know that lightroom is in beta.

When it comes to large jobs and batching, or correcting tethered on set C-1 is miles and miles ahead of anyone else.

JR
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LasseDPF

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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2006, 02:34:09 pm »

Taking too long indeed..
Just google Leaf Capture 10..

Press Release Dated September 28 2004
http://www.printondemand.com/MT/archives/004116.html

And still basically in beta..


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My personal opinion is that Leaf is taking too long with their software development and promises too soon that stuff will appear. Having said that, naturally they are not the only ones with issues and everything is not that horrible as some people want to make you believe.

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Lasse Morkhagen

E_Edwards

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« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2006, 03:30:37 pm »

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Certainly where it comes to Lightroom, I seem to get better results than with any other converter.

I'm also finding that I use Lightroom more and more, as I get used to it.

The difference between Lightroom and LC10 is quite minimal really, I thought LC10 was better, but that's because I was used to it.

In fact, you can't really argue that one is better than the other in terms of final quality (used at 50 ISO) and Lightroom has far better controls on individual colors.

Lightroom scrolling settings are a right pain, very impractical, although you can limit how many settings appear in the scroll. All I know is that with LC10, I always become fidgetty, bordering on the insane at how long it takes for things to happen, it's leaves you feeling irritable during the shoot.  

Lightroom is miles faster and save for a few annoyances, the shooting session tends to be more relaxing. It's looking very promising indeed! I can't wait for the final release to come out.

Edward
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AndrewDyer

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Sinar and Leaf don't do Windows
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2006, 06:34:14 pm »

Well, although others may feel it must be just my imagination, (although I know it isn't), I can see more detail in a file rendered by Leaf Capture than a file rendered by ACR... or Lightroom exported to Photoshop.
Im talking about pixel-peeping here... both files side by side onscreen at 100 - 200% manification.
No matter what sharpening methods I use in Photoshop it does not bring out the detail for me like I can get in LC10. Sure, LC takes a lot longer to process the file, but I do see a part of where all that time goes to.
Actually I think a lot has to do with the "Grain" feature in LC10.
It is like adding detail and sharpness in addition to a sharpening filter... Don't know how it works or what is doing exactly but I like it.
I may end up using Lightroom (or Aperture if/when it supports MOS) for cataloging and selecting files and at times the extreme sharpness will not be necessary, but if I really want that detail - unless ACR improves, I will probably end up using LC for certain occasions.


I hope you all have a great holiday time.

Andrew
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Kumar

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Sinar and Leaf don't do Windows
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2006, 08:22:29 pm »

One last time.

I'm sure we all can use different programs to open Leaf files. That is simply a matter of preference - and that's why those programs exist, in the first place.

I still have no answer why Sinar and Leaf claim it's too difficult to get PC versions of their software out? Other back manufacturers do it. Software only companies do it. What is the technical problem that seems to be unique to these two companies?

Cheers,
Kumar
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thsinar

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« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2006, 03:18:17 am »

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One last time.

I'm sure we all can use different programs to open Leaf files. That is simply a matter of preference - and that's why those programs exist, in the first place.

I still have no answer why Sinar and Leaf claim it's too difficult to get PC versions of their software out? Other back manufacturers do it. Software only companies do it. What is the technical problem that seems to be unique to these two companies?

Cheers,
Kumar
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Dear Kumar,

The fact that Sinar did not have a full PC version of the CaptureShop application has nothing to do with being a technical challenge and we have never claimed that it is too difficult to do it!

The majority of the image industry working on a Mac platform, from commercial photography through editing, pre-press and printing, we have concentrated our efforts for a Mac OS.

Decision has been taken now to propose as well a PC version with the next coming Exposure software.

Best regards,
Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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yaya

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Sinar and Leaf don't do Windows
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2006, 03:25:42 am »

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One last time.

I'm sure we all can use different programs to open Leaf files. That is simply a matter of preference - and that's why those programs exist, in the first place.

I still have no answer why Sinar and Leaf claim it's too difficult to get PC versions of their software out? Other back manufacturers do it. Software only companies do it. What is the technical problem that seems to be unique to these two companies?

Cheers,
Kumar
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I did not claim that it was too difficult, because it isn't.

However, the imaging-creative-photographic industry, historically, is dominated by Apple computers.
Being part of Scitex/ Creo/ Kodak since 1992, we've "grown" in a Mac environment with most resources coming from MacOS programming etc.
In the mid-80's, when Leaf was still a small American company, the first products were actually run by a Windows software (LeafScan 35 and 45, Leaf Lumina...).

In the last 3-4 years, the demand for a Windows version has indeed started to grow. Still we are looking at a minority that is mostly coming from the corporate, education, military and architechture sectors, along with the social-wedding sector.

LeafCapture 10 is written as a cross-platform software, meanning it looks and functions similiarily on both Windows and MacOS platforms.

Other companies indeed have Windows versions, although from my experience they are not as fully featured as the relative Mac vesrions. You will also notice that these softwares are rarely demonstrated on Windows machines.

As I mentioned before, our Windows version is currently at a Beta stage.
I had a Sony Vaio T2300 laptop for a few weeks recently, which I was using for testing and demonstrating the Windows version with our Aptus backs in both tethered and portable modes with good results. For tethering I used a $20 PCMCIA FW card and a $25 FW booster from [a href=\"http://tinyurl.com/vhvnz]HERE[/url] with no problems at all.

I hope this helps

BR and Happy Holidays

Yair
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LasseDPF

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« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2006, 03:45:34 am »

I find the same thing. I usually end up doing the final conversions in LC10. The files are much better than other converters I have tried.  So as far as file quality goes I feel LC10 is the best.
The new update 2 for Lc10 seems a bit more stable and "snappier".

For a long time I thought LC8 made the best conversions, but at some point it seems Lc10 startet to perform better.. Might just be me. Now I prefer the LC10 files..

however I tend to use other software for all other purposes.

Roumors has it that Aperture will support MOS files. If Leaf could supply the MOS convertor routines and Apple make the software..     I do miss curves in Apterture though..


Lasse


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Well, although others may feel it must be just my imagination, (although I know it isn't), I can see more detail in a file rendered by Leaf Capture than a file rendered by ACR... or Lightroom exported to Photoshop.
Im talking about pixel-peeping here... both files side by side onscreen at 100 - 200% manification.
No matter what sharpening methods I use in Photoshop it does not bring out the detail for me like I can get in LC10. Sure, LC takes a lot longer to process the file, but I do see a part of where all that time goes to.
Actually I think a lot has to do with the "Grain" feature in LC10.
It is like adding detail and sharpness in addition to a sharpening filter... Don't know how it works or what is doing exactly but I like it.
I may end up using Lightroom (or Aperture if/when it supports MOS) for cataloging and selecting files and at times the extreme sharpness will not be necessary, but if I really want that detail - unless ACR improves, I will probably end up using LC for certain occasions.
I hope you all have a great holiday time.

Andrew
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Lasse Morkhagen

Kumar

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Sinar and Leaf don't do Windows
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2006, 04:39:21 am »

Dear Thierry and Yair,

I am certainly very glad to hear that it isn't difficult to do a PC version.

But Yair said: PC systems also have a lot more variables than Macs: graphics cards, FireWire cards, power output etc., making it more difficult and time consuming when it comes to development and QA.

So, it's simply a case of marketing priority, rather than any other reason. On this topic itself, photographers have said that they chose not to go with Leaf or Sinar because of the lack of a PC version. Strange marketing priorities, indeed!

I believe both companies have had beta PC programs for at least five years. Hey guys, we're NOT doing clinical trials

And if you want some programmers from Bangalore, call Seetha at Adobe

Cheers,
Kumar
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mda

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« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2008, 01:01:26 am »

Anybody have any new info on this topic since Leaf just came (or not sure really when it came out) with 11.1 and Windows version?
I see there is only an XP version....  why is this when Vista is now well over a year old?
Does anyone know how to get Leaf Capture 11 it to work on Vista?
I've tried running and installing the program in Compatibility mode (as you need to do with CaptureOne 3.7.x) but no luck.

Amazing that 2 years later they still haven't paid much attention to PC users.
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jing q

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« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2008, 03:28:53 am »

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Anybody have any new info on this topic since Leaf just came (or not sure really when it came out) with 11.1 and Windows version?
I see there is only an XP version....  why is this when Vista is now well over a year old?
Does anyone know how to get Leaf Capture 11 it to work on Vista?
I've tried running and installing the program in Compatibility mode (as you need to do with CaptureOne 3.7.x) but no luck.

Amazing that 2 years later they still haven't paid much attention to PC users.
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I'm still using XP, leaf capture 11.1 runs fine except for some bug that prevents the computer from shutting down after I've used leaf capture 11.1
Also, firewire on XP has a problem that's been widely noted online that throttles the speed down to 100mbps instead of 800mbps for firewire800

Also the maximum that windows xp will run is firewire 400 speeds even if you use firewire800.
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eronald

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« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2008, 08:16:43 am »

At ICC meeings I inquired why Microsoft does not attend. I was told something like "It's against Microsoft internal policy to be part of standards organisations". On the other hand, Adobe only sends someone who works in the digital motion side of things, not photography.

Canon, Nikon etc attend, but they don't want to document the raw to colorimetric conversions.

Interoperability is the last thing camera companies and software companies want. One exception appears to be Leaf who are fairly open.


Edmund



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This document is dated December 4, 2001. It says Microsoft first implemented ICM 1.0  in Win95. ICM 2.0 was implemented in Win98 and Win2K. Both conform to ICC specifications. Five years, and still beta/under development?

All this does not answer the question: How have Phase One, Imacon and dSLR manufacturers managed to release PC versions of their software, while Sinar and Leaf claim that it's too difficult?

Cheers,
Kumar
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« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 08:18:17 am by eronald »
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