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Author Topic: Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?  (Read 12118 times)

Graham Mitchell

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« on: December 14, 2006, 05:35:32 am »

I just ordered a Sinar eMotion22 back but it won't be with me for another month. Until then I would like to prepare the software and auxiliary hardware side of things.

1) I understand that the back will come with Sinar CaptureShop. Is that the best/only option for tethered shooting? Are there any Windows options for tethered shooting? I only have PCs at the moment so I need to work out if the purchase of a new Mac is necessary.

2) I hear that a new piece of Software is on the way and it's called Sinar Exposure. Is this just a change in name or in functionality as well? Will it be available for Windows OS?

3) Under what circumstances are people using Stephan Hess's software (brumbaer) rather than the Sinar software and why? I read that Sinar's latest software incorporates some of his code, but can anyone confirm this? Does this render his own software obsolete?

Any other helpful comments would be appreciated.

(By the way, to Sinar users: Captureshop 5.4.2 can now be downloaded from the sinar.ch website if you are a registered user.)
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Morgan_Moore

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2006, 02:03:51 pm »

Quote
I just ordered a Sinar eMotion22 back [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90487\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My knowledge of the software is a little out of date.

There is Eyelike software as well as Sinar sofware this is what I use.

I think it is very good software and worth a try - once you realise its strenghts for having multiple galleries open for editing, and saving 'parameters' (looks) which can be pasted to all images it is very good. Also the minimal controls kind of make it hard to start with but sort of easier in the long run

I beleive that all software can only change the colour curves to ultimately that is all you need (excluding sharpening and moiree filtration)

The work flow


Shooting tethered is simple plug it in press apple1 it and it works  - pull the lead out by accident and it shoots to the camera

Now you have some pictures

(optionally) you photograph a gregtag color card and create a profile

then..

Basically you fiddle with WB and colour curves till you get something you like and then paste that on to all images the software allows you to 'rewind' through your fiddling' - great

Fiddle with each image some more

Then press save all as tiff and go to the pub  or read or post on this board

Being PC based I bought a Mac laptop and a Eizo screen for it - the tiffs are then moved to the PC as are the Raws

Eylike did release a PC software which you can download from eyelike.com

As far as I could work out it had very (unasably) minimal functionality - maybe I just didnt get the hang of it

I have not tried Brums software it needs OS 10.4 or above to run my lappy is of course 10.39

My undersatnding is that is allows you to work in ACR which makes transitioning from other cameras more intuitive (as the Eye software is initially un-intuitive with no temperature slider  and some confusing tick boxes)

I beleive it is also better at recovering highlights and (as with the new sinar and eye softwares) allows the application of a reference grey shot to kill color shifts and sensor split issues

Prepare to be up late

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

rainer_v

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2006, 05:44:00 pm »

congratulations foto-z......

i will answer a part of your questions now.....

i use stephans software because it is very fast and delivers the best workflow i know ( esp. when i use white refernce shots ), it removes any eventually cf problems, works with two color profiles and further it has a very sophisticated highlight recovery, which works as long as one color channel still has some information in it,- it does not cut all the channels if one is blown out,- thats what most other programs do. ( or they clip to cyan or magenta if highlights are recovered as the canon dpp ). this feature is worth gold. in practice you gain a minimum of 1 stop in the highlights and often 2 or even 2,5. you dont have to care much  windows, white clouds or lights,- its very usefull.

i will describe the workflow:

with the e75i usually work with shift lenses, but even if use my e22 ( at the moment with hassy, soon with contax 645 ) i take now the same workflow,- cause the advantages for the image quality are also there with the e22,- just a little bit less than with the e75 cause its less critical in color shifting.

i shoot before every new motif  a white refernce shot, using a 10x10cm white diffuser ( from sinar ) which i hold in front of the lense.
after finishing my shooting i connect the e22/75 and start the eMotionReader from stephan, which copy now the files from the internal memory and/or from the cf card to my g5 or my probook.
the files are named as 061214-230723-1078 ( year-month-day-time-back number) and they are pure raw files, containing *.br files ( blackreferences) and *.IA files ( the image data).
i like that the image is not converted to any other format at this stage for archiving the raws as they come out of the camera. mac os can preview the *.IA files in the finder.

than i start the eMotionDNG konverter and drag all the white files ( raw files called *.IA ) to the white-reference field of the konverter. the program writes than in a batch all the white shots as white-reference-files ( *.rxx ) to the same folder ( or another if you like ) .
after that i drag the whole folder in the conversion field of the programm and it  converts now all the files to DNG files. it uses now every white refernce file automatically at the position it was shot for all following files, till the program gets  the next white file which is than used for the next shots, till there comes the next white file and so on.......
so i can convert all my shots to dng without paying any attention to vignetting or eventually existing color shifts. 100 shots will take around 15 minutes, time for a coffee.
the workflow is that logic and easy that it saves me a lot of time after every larger shooting.

further you can use color calibrations using a little or large gretag table. if you provide two ( one for daylight, one for tungsten ) the programm interpolates between the two profiles.

about tethered shooting: there is a new tethered program from stephan but i suggested to improve the white balance. as the other progams also it makes what it should do and nothing more... so it is fast ( about 8 seconds in my G4 probook for each shot with the e75, app. 5 seconds with the e22 ).
it takes the images from the back, write the raws to harddisk and send it through the dng konverter to create a dng, using herealso the actual white-ref. file.
it will take some days till stephan will bring it up his page, but he said to me that you can email him to have it just now as it is now in v 1.0ß2.

the programs from stephan are for mac os, they run with intel macs also, using here the fast code. as far i know there is no pc version planned.
i think you should take a mac.
a g4 probook is fast enough for stephans tools.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 09:25:01 pm by rehnniar »
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rainer viertlböck
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Graham Mitchell

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2006, 06:12:51 pm »

Thanks to you both for the replies.
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rethmeier

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2006, 07:31:19 pm »

Rainer,
have you tried the latest Sinar Captureshop,compared to Stephans?
Regards,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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rainer_v

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2006, 07:47:58 pm »

i looked to the new features and i think its very good  that there is implemented now the white reference shooting and the cf correction. the white shots are made tethered, i normally shoot untethered.... and ofcourse i already know captureshop pretty well, the other modules are not that different from before, as it seems on a fast view ( apart from the new noise reduction which works very well ). lets see also the new programm from sinar.....
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 09:22:58 pm by rehnniar »
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rainer viertlböck
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David WM

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2006, 11:26:51 pm »

Thanks for your workflow description Rainer. I haven't been using the white reference for location shooting and your advice will help.
For location untethered work I use Stephan's eMotion eMotion reader to download the files in the back to macbook. It is fast like Rainer mentions. The hightlight recovery works well. The on screen previews it generates are not so good if you want to use it to view the images. I find judging the exposures with the LCD image of the e22 in outdoor lighting hard, and I also find the histogram (on the e22) not that easy to interpret, so I can't tell easily if I have detail or not in highlights. Its partly for this reason I like Stephan's dng converter.
I avoid the use of CF cards as I once had a problem with files being corrupted when being transferred to CF. I think this related to certain cards and I don't know if it is still an issue because firmware has been upgraded at least once since then, but if you use CF, give them a good test before you rely on them.
For tethered work I have found Captureshop to be excellent. I have had no firewire trouble at all, with connections or the(excellent) 10m cable ( I have put one of those plastic wrap-around cable protectors around the cable because it is an expensive item to replace and I have found that other brranded cables will not fit into the e22 because the end that goes into the back needs to be thin to have enough clearance to be inserted).
I think development on Eyelike Capture Pro has been stopped for a while in favour of Sinar software. I am not a huge fan of the tools and controls in Captureshop, or its speed, but it is reliable. It is probably more relevant  to look to the new software that Sinar is bringing out. I guess they are putting a lot of resources into it and I think that Jenoptic and Sinar realise the importance of it being really good.
If you use a G4 laptop you would need to test the transfer times for downloading files as it will take longer than a Macbook.
Hope this helps
David
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thsinar

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2006, 12:42:27 am »

Quote
I just ordered a Sinar eMotion22 back but it won't be with me for another month. Until then I would like to prepare the software and auxiliary hardware side of things.

1) I understand that the back will come with Sinar CaptureShop. Is that the best/only option for tethered shooting? Are there any Windows options for tethered shooting? I only have PCs at the moment so I need to work out if the purchase of a new Mac is necessary.

2) I hear that a new piece of Software is on the way and it's called Sinar Exposure. Is this just a change in name or in functionality as well? Will it be available for Windows OS?

3) Under what circumstances are people using Stephan Hess's software (brumbaer) rather than the Sinar software and why? I read that Sinar's latest software incorporates some of his code, but can anyone confirm this? Does this render his own software obsolete?

Any other helpful comments would be appreciated.

(By the way, to Sinar users: Captureshop 5.4.2 can now be downloaded from the sinar.ch website if you are a registered user.)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90487\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

hi Graham,

1. I think Rainer has said it all and perfectly concerning the use of Stfan's "Brumbaer tools" (eMotion Reader & eMotion DNG Converter"): it is really a simple and fast workflow, allowing to download and convert files in a very fast batch process. It is ideal if you wish to shoot un-thetered.

As Rainer, and many others, I would suggest you to switch to Mac, instead of PC.. Most of the PC version are "light" version of the original Mac OS versions, like the Eyelike one.

2.  The current Captureshop 5.4.2 which has been released 2 weeks ago is including Stephan's Brumbaer tools, with the exception of the "Highlight Recovery" which will be integrated in a next version. All centerfold issues are eliminated, as well as color casts/shifts are corrected by means of "white reference" shooting, as in Stefans tool, but thetered.

The most important changes in 5.4.2 are as follows:
 
a)      Sinar CaptureShop™ 5.4.2 supports Apple Macintosh computers that are equipped with
Intel Core Duo processors (iMac, MacBook, MacBook Pro and Mac Pro Xeon).

       The user interface of CaptureShop™ 5 is now available also in German and Japanese.

c)       A new noise reduction filter is now available. It can be selected on demand and its parameters can be set and customized according to the user's needs.

d)       The procedure of the Black Reference calibration for the Sinarback 54 M and 54 MC has been changed.
 
Now the Black Reference is automatically calibrated with all exposure times and is automatically repeated every 15 minutes. With exposure times of more than 1 second, when altering the exposure time by more than 10%, automatically a new Black Reference is taken subsequently to an image capture.

Notice: On initial operation of Capture–Shop™ 5.4.2 with your Sinarback 54 M/MC automatically a
new firmware is loaded. Please read the respective information in section 8 of this document.

e)       With the Sinarback eMotion 22 and eMotion 75 a userdefined White-Shading now can also be performed in tethered-mode operation.

3. Sinar Exposure

this new capture software from Sinar will not be a change in name: this is a completely different application with many new features. Most importantly: it will write DNG files.
A Windows version in planed, once the Mac OSX is released.

Hope this helps,
Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Graham Mitchell

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2006, 01:56:12 am »

Thanks, Thierry. Has a release date been announced yet for Exposure?
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thsinar

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2006, 02:40:05 am »

Quote
Thanks, Thierry. Has a release date been announced yet for Exposure?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90641\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dear Graham,

Exposure will be released tentatively in February/March '07, after the different Beta-testings.

Kind regards,
thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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rainer_v

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2006, 04:30:51 am »

Quote
I find judging the exposures with the LCD image of the e22 in outdoor lighting hard, and I also find the histogram (on the e22) not that easy to interpret, so I can't tell easily if I have detail or not in highlights. Its partly for this reason I like Stephan's dng converter.
I avoid the use of CF cards as I once had a problem with files being corrupted when being transferred to CF. I think this related to certain cards and I don't know if it is still an issue because firmware has been upgraded at least once since then, but if you use CF, give them a good test before you rely on them.

David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90625\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i think the ole-display of the emotion is the best on the market, cause it has not the lcd flaws.  its still visible in bright light in "color", although  i have to shade it with my hands and bring up the brightness to "5".whats good is the  160degrees viewing angle without that the colors change. much better than lcd displays.
i think not any display allows you to see highlights well.  the emotion blinking red warning of clippings is accurate, but mostly i shoot one! stop hotter than it tells me, the highlights are perfectly recoverd doing this and the shadows open up incredible well. even in scenes where i think i should layer different exposures usually i dont do cause the highest exposures gets it all.


 the 10mtr cable is excellent for tethered shooting, for data transfere it is sometimes too long and can lead to problems as you describe. i had corrupted files also one time and took care a lot of since that event.... but it never repeated in the last 6 months when i used shorter cables, so i am confident in cf card writing now.
i use several cards, 2gb + 4gb and even microdrives ( shouldnt do that...but no problems ). mostly i use them to move the files from the int. hd to have new shooting capacity free. this internal HD space is great, because its so fast and you have together with  one 4gb card  10gb disc-space with you with the e75 and 7gb with the e22. sinar could name the backs also with a "+"  .....
« Last Edit: December 15, 2006, 07:55:59 am by rehnniar »
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rainer viertlböck
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David WM

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2006, 08:58:30 am »

Quote
i think the ole-display of the emotion is the best on the market,
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90663\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't mean to criticise the e22 display, but it is just where the display technology seems to be at. I think maybe it is too much to expect of a device that produces its image by emitting light to be able to compete with bright daylight. I am in Australia, I understand European light is a lot softer there, so maybe a bit easier to see. I think a useful accessory for DB's would be a detachable shade,  similar in design to a waist level finder, and possibly with a low magnification eyepiece.

David
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thsinar

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2006, 09:45:46 am »

Quote
I don't mean to criticise the e22 display, but it is just where the display technology seems to be at. I think maybe it is too much to expect of a device that produces its image by emitting light to be able to compete with bright daylight. I am in Australia, I understand European light is a lot softer there, so maybe a bit easier to see. I think a useful accessory for DB's would be a detachable shade,  similar in design to a waist level finder, and possibly with a low magnification eyepiece.

David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90685\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

David,

yes, you are absolutely right: this is the current display technology limits. However, the "OLED" technology (Organic Light Emitting Display) is by far brighter than any corresponding LCD display, though still not able to cope with the "Aussie" light conditions!

Your suggestion is welcome and I shall forward it: many thanks.

Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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rainer_v

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2006, 10:02:07 am »

i agree, thats a good idea. ....
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rainer viertlböck
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Tomas Johanson

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2006, 06:11:59 am »

Quote
I think a useful accessory for DB's would be a detachable shade,  similar in design to a waist level finder, and possibly with a low magnification eyepiece.

David
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This can be a solution:
[a href=\"http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti_eng/digibellows.htm]http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti...digibellows.htm[/url]

/Tomas
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David WM

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2006, 06:32:32 am »

Quote
This can be a solution:
http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti...digibellows.htm

/Tomas
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90817\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Thomas, it looks great, I've just sent an email for pricing and to see how it attaches. There is only 7mm from the edge of the display to the nearest control button, hope it fits.

David
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hubell

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2006, 08:21:12 am »

Quote
This can be a solution:
http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti...digibellows.htm

/Tomas
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Or, better yet, consider this:

[a href=\"http://www.hoodmanusa.com/H-LPP.asp]http://www.hoodmanusa.com/H-LPP.asp[/url]

Graham Mitchell

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2007, 05:33:32 pm »

Now that I have my back, I have just re-read this thread and it makes more sense.

I borrowed a fast Mac with 24" screen 2 days ago and tested the tethered shooting. Was  pleasantly surprised by the speed at which I could shoot successive frames. Given the typical recycle time of my flash units, I don't need more much speed.

I noticed that Capture Shop works natively with .STI files and can export them to other formats. That much is clear. What puzzled me was that if I shoot untethered and transfer the files manually, these files are in .IA format and apparently Capture Shop can't read these. I wasn't expecting that. Which Sinar software can read .IA files? Did I miss something? Anyway, Brumbaer's DNG converter did the job.

I look forward to seeing what Exposure has to offer, and I see a Mac in my future
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rainer_v

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« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2007, 05:55:32 pm »

Quote
Now that I have my back, I have just re-read this thread and it makes more sense.
I borrowed a fast Mac with 24" screen 2 days ago and tested the tethered shooting. Was  pleasantly surprised by the speed at which I could shoot successive frames. Given the typical recycle time of my flash units, I don't need more much speed.
I noticed that Capture Shop works natively with .STI files and can export them to other formats. That much is clear. What puzzled me was that if I shoot untethered and transfer the files manually, these files are in .IA format and apparently Capture Shop can't read these. I wasn't expecting that. Which Sinar software can read .IA files? Did I miss something? Anyway, Brumbaer's DNG converter did the job.
I look forward to seeing what Exposure has to offer, and I see a Mac in my future
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98609\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No you dont miss anything. Sinar software reads the raw files ( .IA + .BR (BlackReference)), but  translates them directly to .sti files meanwhile it downloads them from the back or from the cf card.

with which camera you use your e22 ?
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rainer viertlböck
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Graham Mitchell

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Best workflow for Sinar eMotion backs?
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2007, 06:00:05 pm »

Quote
No you dont miss anything. Sinar software reads the raw files ( .IA + .BR (BlackReference)), but  translates them directly to .sti files meanwhile it downloads them from the back or from the cf card.

Oh I see, so I should put full CF cards back in the eMotion and download them using software? I was dumping the contents of the CF card straight to disk.

Quote
with which camera you use your e22 ?

Rollei 6008
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 06:00:50 pm by foto-z »
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