Topic: Phase P30 w/ Mac Book Pro (Read 10189 times)

vondiest · « **on:** December 08, 2006, 02:34:55 pm »

We just got a Phase P30 / H1 system (upgrading from Phase H20). Tethered capture to dual G5 tower is very slow (I knew it would be) and I am considering which Intel Macs to buy. Is anyone shooting the P30 tethered to a Mac Book Pro 15"? The only reason why I might want to buy the 17" MBP is the optional 7200rpm hard drive... but I don't know if that HD speed increase will make a difference in shutter-to-screen-preview time. Can anyone speak to if the HD speed increase benefits capture speed?

Obviously the Mac Pro quad tower will be the fastest option, but would really like to know if I can slim down to just the laptop for location and studio work.

Much appreciated!

william · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2006, 04:02:55 pm »

I'm shooting with the P30/Contax 645 and a 17" MacBook Pro. Capture times when shooting tethered seem reasonably fast; I never have to wait for it to catch up with me doing portrait/fashion work int he studio and can shoot pretty much continuously at the camera/back's frame rate. (I've never actually held down the shutter release to test the tethered capture speed; all I know is that I haven't yet found myself waiting to be able to take the next shot).

Quote

We just got a Phase P30 / H1 system (upgrading from Phase H20). Tethered capture to dual G5 tower is very slow (I knew it would be) and I am considering which Intel Macs to buy. Is anyone shooting the P30 tethered to a Mac Book Pro 15"? The only reason why I might want to buy the 17" MBP is the optional 7200rpm hard drive... but I don't know if that HD speed increase will make a difference in shutter-to-screen-preview time. Can anyone speak to if the HD speed increase benefits capture speed?

Obviously the Mac Pro quad tower will be the fastest option, but would really like to know if I can slim down to just the laptop for location and studio work.

Much appreciated!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89443\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

CliffSamys · « **Reply #2 on:** December 09, 2006, 12:32:33 am »

You're gonna see slower capture speeds on a MacBook Pro than the G5. The faster HD will make a difference, but not really all that much. You could always swap a 7200 RPM drive into the 15" after the purchase, but honestly, the biggest difference you will notcice is your battery draining a LOT faster.

paul_jones · « **Reply #3 on:** December 09, 2006, 03:02:20 am »

Quote

You're gonna see slower capture speeds on a MacBook Pro than the G5. The faster HD will make a difference, but not really all that much. You could always swap a 7200 RPM drive into the 15" after the purchase, but honestly, the biggest difference you will notcice is your battery draining a LOT faster.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89503\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

for what this is worth... my p25 captures quite a lot faster to my 2gig macbookpro than it does to my dual 1.8 g5. the macbook is also faster processing. i find capture rate faster with the back on small mode.

paul

Jann Lipka · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2006, 04:33:19 am »

For me the latest C1 with MBP 2.16 ( with fastest 7200 drive )
was a great improvement ( after G4 PoerBook ) , and I can even shoot people tethered ..
( the latest version 3.7 of C1 is very much faster then previous )

I can see a new image on the screen after every 3 seconds and
even buffering works OK ,
Obviously no macth for Canons but OK to work with ..

C1 is universal so it is probably slightly faster with Intel ..
I use a powered FW hub to skip FW bus problems..

AND - I'm on P45 .

william · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2006, 08:52:20 am »

I agree with these findings and will just note that capture and preview speeds are a touch faster with my P30, which would make sense. I see a new image on screen about every 2 seconds.

Quote

For me the latest C1 with MBP 2.16 ( with fastest 7200 drive )
was a great improvement ( after G4 PoerBook ) , and I can even shoot people tethered ..
( the latest version 3.7 of C1 is very much faster then previous )
I can see a new image on the screen after every 3 seconds and
even buffering works OK ,
Obviously no macth for Canons but OK to work with ..
C1 is universal so it is probably slightly faster with Intel ..
I use a powered FW hub to skip FW bus problems..

AND - I'm on P45 .
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89528\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark_Tucker · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2006, 09:36:04 am »

Quote

I can see a new image on the screen after every 3 seconds and
even buffering works OK ,
AND - I'm on P45 .
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89528\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I want to be clear what you're saying. For me, after I press the shutter release on the Contax/P45, the Preview comes up in CaptureOne in about six to seven seconds. I'm tethering to 17" MacBookPro 2.16 Intel Core Duo, but with normal HD; not 7200.

Are you seeing Preview in three seconds? I just want to make sure we're talking/thinking of exactly the same thing.

I, too, am trying to make sure that this MacBook is good enough for heavy duty tethered job, and that the P45 would not require dragging out the G5 tower.

Beyond that, what is really driving this question is, if the client REQUIRES tethering, and I'm shooting fast, will the P45 begin to bog down the MacBook Pro, and thus begin to affect the capture rate. On some level, I could care less how quickly the Preview show up in CaptureOne, but I *do* care if the computer is not powerful enough, and begins to bog down, and then I have to wait longer and longer to shoot images.

I have experienced this, on location, tethered with the P25 and a G5 Imac, where the computer wouldn't "give back" the shutter release quickly enough, if I shot too fast. So "capture rate when tethered" is my prevailing concern.

CliffSamys · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2006, 10:50:43 am »

Quote

Beyond that, what is really driving this question is, if the client REQUIRES tethering, and I'm shooting fast, will the P45 begin to bog down the MacBook Pro, and thus begin to affect the capture rate. On some level, I could care less how quickly the Preview show up in CaptureOne, but I *do* care if the computer is not powerful enough, and begins to bog down, and then I have to wait longer and longer to shoot images.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89542\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, this is what I mean when I talk about capture speeds. It's not really the speed a single preview pops up, but the speed of, say, 100 captures total. I have yet to see any laptop keep up with a tower under these circumstances (even with a 7200 RPM drive in the laptop).

Mark_Tucker · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2006, 10:56:34 am »

Quote

Yes, this is what I mean when I talk about capture speeds. It's not really the speed a single preview pops up, but the speed of, say, 100 captures total. I have yet to see any laptop keep up with a tower under these circumstances (even with a 7200 RPM drive in the laptop).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89555\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You can't just shoot one frame either, because on the first frame, it's building the Black Calibration file, and it will be noticeably slower. You need to shoot ten or twenty frames and average it.

Also, what makes be curious after about the eight or ninth fast frame is: do you hit a bottleneck somewhere in this area, where the pipes start to clog up, and the capture rate slows down, and CaptureOne won't let you shoot again, til the pipes get clear.

william · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2006, 11:34:17 am »

I'm not sure if this is what Jann's saying, but it is what I'm saying: I see the preview in about 3 seconds. It takes a second or two beyond that for it to fully render. (Remember, I have the P30, not the P45).

As to whether the MacBook Pro gets bogged down in comparison to how a tower would perform, I can't say for sure because I haven't paid that much attentionto it. But the fact that I haven't paid that much attentiont o it probably means that I'm not feeling it get bogged down. The last big tethered shoot I did was about a month ago. I shot about 4-500 frames. I don't recall ever having to wait for the camera to be ready to take the next frame. Granted, I'm not a super-fast shooter when shooting people anyway, but, as I say, I don't remember ever having to wait for the buffer to clear.

I would imagine that if you're shooting with the P45 (bigger files than my P30) and if you're shooting for a sustained period of time at or near the maximum frame rate, that it would begin to bog the MacBook down.

Quote

I want to be clear what you're saying. For me, after I press the shutter release on the Contax/P45, the Preview comes up in CaptureOne in about six to seven seconds. I'm tethering to 17" MacBookPro 2.16 Intel Core Duo, but with normal HD; not 7200.

Are you seeing Preview in three seconds? I just want to make sure we're talking/thinking of exactly the same thing.

I, too, am trying to make sure that this MacBook is good enough for heavy duty tethered job, and that the P45 would not require dragging out the G5 tower.

Beyond that, what is really driving this question is, if the client REQUIRES tethering, and I'm shooting fast, will the P45 begin to bog down the MacBook Pro, and thus begin to affect the capture rate. On some level, I could care less how quickly the Preview show up in CaptureOne, but I *do* care if the computer is not powerful enough, and begins to bog down, and then I have to wait longer and longer to shoot images.

I have experienced this, on location, tethered with the P25 and a G5 Imac, where the computer wouldn't "give back" the shutter release quickly enough, if I shot too fast. So "capture rate when tethered" is my prevailing concern.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89542\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

pss · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2006, 03:00:53 pm »

i have a P30 and i shoot tethered to a 15" 2.33 with a 5400rpm HD 2gb ram...the preview pop up fast, 2-3 sec max...not really sure about full res...either way no problem at all....
there are a couple of way to get a faster HD, MCETECH puts a second HD in the MBP instead of the SD...put the sytem/apps on one HD, the capture folder on the second....of course both could be striped to make a superfast array, but i am afraid to shot to striped arrays (one drive fails, all data is lost...)...there is also the LaCie Little Big Disc a FW800 powered 2 HD array.....how much faster will they make capture? don't know, but they will squeeze the max out of the MBP and bring it pretty close to the desktops....in my experience the latest MBPs are as fast or faster when tethered then the G5s anyway...

there is a very interesting test about HD speed here...notice that the big slower drives are faster then the 7200HDs when all filled to 74gb....so the speed increase of the 7200HDs is really only an advantage if the drives are less then half full, which really rules out the 7200rpm 100gb drive as a boot dive AND capture drive.....also notice the SPEED of the striped little big disc....

i think the best solution right now would be the mce double drive kit with a little big disc....of course maxing the ram in the latest MBPs to 3gb will help C1 as well....the total cost of that? about 1500 (for HDs and ram) but i am sure it would make things more snappy....

bcroslin · « **Reply #11 on:** December 09, 2006, 06:04:28 pm »

I'm gathering from reading these replies that no one is having issues powering backs from the firewire port of the MBP. I shot my Valeo 22 tethered to an assistant's 1.8 MPB in the studio a few months ago and had zero firewire issues and the previews would pop up in about 4-5 sec's. The art director on set had no problem with the speed of the previews.

I've been holding off upgrading my G4 powerbook to an intel because of the issues I've read about on this forum. If anyone is seeing the firewire issue would you please explain what you think the problem to be? I think James mentioned it at one point - is it still an issue with the new MBPs?

pss · « **Reply #12 on:** December 09, 2006, 06:15:35 pm »

Quote

I'm gathering from reading these replies that no one is having issues powering backs from the firewire port of the MBP. I shot my Valeo 22 tethered to an assistant's 1.8 MPB in the studio a few months ago and had zero firewire issues and the previews would pop up in about 4-5 sec's. The art director on set had no problem with the speed of the previews.

I've been holding off upgrading my G4 powerbook to an intel because of the issues I've read about on this forum. If anyone is seeing the firewire issue would you please explain what you think the problem to be? I think James mentioned it at one point - is it still an issue with the new MBPs?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89605\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i had the 2.16 15" (single core?) MBP...no problems tethering at all, no dropped connection, no issues of any kind....now i have the 2.33 dual core 15", no problem at all.....i honestly think these latest MBPs 15" with FW800 are the best apple powerbooks ever....really fast....this is with P20 and P30....previews take 2-3 sec max....

ericstaud · « **Reply #13 on:** December 09, 2006, 06:48:35 pm »

I will give this "P45 on a MBP" a test tonight and will give you pretty accurate capture rates. In a related scenario, shooting with the Aptus 75 into LC10, a Macbook Pro was faster than the G5 tower I had used. Here are the two systems...

MBP 2.16 core duo ( 100GB internal for startup)
30" cinema display
Firmtek eSATA card
Firmtek two bay enclosure
Seagate Barracuda 400GB 7200RPM 3.5" drive ( for the files)
2 GB RAM

versus

Dual 2.0GHz G5 Tower
23" Cinema Display
4GB RAM
Two internal 400GB hard drives ( 1 for startup and 1 for files)

The MBP was faster at bringing the preview image up on the screen, just a little. This was for shooting fashion. 80GB per day. If you get used to moving files around between SATA drives at the end of the day, then trying to use FW400 or FW800 to transfer files after shooting really sucks. This is partly why I use an external SATA enclosure for high volume work. It also does not get in the way of the Firewire bus.

Where the MBP falls short is once you've got Photoshop, Mail, Safari, and C1 Pro open. Then you'll wish you had 4GB of RAM or more.

Jann Lipka · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2006, 12:53:25 am »

Quote from: Mark_Tucker,Dec 9 2006, 04:36 PM

Quote
I want to be clear what you're saying. For me, after I press the shutter release on the Contax/P45, the Preview comes up in CaptureOne in about six to seven seconds. I'm tethering to 17" MacBookPro 2.16 Intel Core Duo, but with normal HD; not 7200

Are you seeing Preview in three seconds? I just want to make sure we're talking/thinking of exactly the same thing.

Mark , that is true on my system .

New image on the screen after 3 seconds after I press the button ,
Ok maybe it is like 3.49 s .
But closer to 3 then 4 ...

Six to 12 seconds would be a pain .

thsinar · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2006, 06:52:19 am »

Quote

I'm gathering from reading these replies that no one is having issues powering backs from the firewire port of the MBP. I shot my Valeo 22 tethered to an assistant's 1.8 MPB in the studio a few months ago and had zero firewire issues and the previews would pop up in about 4-5 sec's. The art director on set had no problem with the speed of the previews.

I've been holding off upgrading my G4 powerbook to an intel because of the issues I've read about on this forum. If anyone is seeing the firewire issue would you please explain what you think the problem to be? I think James mentioned it at one point - is it still an issue with the new MBPs?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89605\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

hi Bob,

i am not sure what issue you are speaking about here, but yes there might be some firewire connection issues when shooting thetered. The reason is that the latest PB and the new MBP do not provide as much voltage as pevious ones.

I know some Phase users having this problem, where the back won't connect: I guess Phase is providing a solution for this.

Sinarbacks do also from time to time ahve connection problems with these latest PB's and MBP's: we recommend to take a shorter (e.g.4.5m= FW cable, which generally solve the problem.

best regards,
Thierry

pprdigital · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2006, 08:30:05 am »

Quote

hi Bob,

i am not sure what issue you are speaking about here, but yes there might be some firewire connection issues when shooting thetered. The reason is that the latest PB and the new MBP do not provide as much voltage as pevious ones.

I know some Phase users having this problem, where the back won't connect: I guess Phase is providing a solution for this.

Sinarbacks do also from time to time ahve connection problems with these latest PB's and MBP's: we recommend to take a shorter (e.g.4.5m= FW cable, which generally solve the problem.

best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89677\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thierry -

Don't forget to remind everyone that the Sinarbacks ship with a very nice (although backups are expensive) 33 foot firewire cable that comes with the back. Great for those up the ladder jobs.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital

Jann Lipka · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2006, 08:38:23 am »

I had a lot of FW related problems ( P45 ) on MBP ,
until recently , those went away with

1 powered FW hub
2 latest version of C1Pro

Mark_Tucker · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2006, 09:00:33 am »

Quote

Yes, this is what I mean when I talk about capture speeds. It's not really the speed a single preview pops up, but the speed of, say, 100 captures total. I have yet to see any laptop keep up with a tower under these circumstances (even with a 7200 RPM drive in the laptop).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89555\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So, at this point, at least for me, dragging around a G5 tower on location is NOT an option. Period. So the question is, what configuration of MacBookPro gets you closest to a tower. I have the 17 MBP now, the 2.16 Core Duo, with 2gigs of RAM in it. I wonder if going to this newer Batman Duo 2, or whatever it's called, would make any substantial difference, to justify the hassle and expense. This should be noted as one downside of choosing the P45, over the P30 -- just moving this much more data thru the pipes.

Again, when I shoot now, I see Previews in Capture One in six seconds. But more, the concern over bogging down the capture rate when shooting people, after say, ten or twelve frames.

thsinar · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2006, 10:15:10 am »

Quote

Thierry -

Don't forget to remind everyone that the Sinarbacks ship with a very nice (although backups are expensive) 33 foot firewire cable that comes with the back. Great for those up the ladder jobs.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=89686\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Steve,

yes, right, although I'm more used in the metric 10 meters!

Thanks!

Thierry

Author Topic: Phase P30 w/ Mac Book Pro (Read 10189 times)

Mark_Tucker

Mark_Tucker

Mark_Tucker